Writers who don't read

[DokiDokiTsuna]

So you may be expecting this to be my usual critical/complaining thread...unfortunately (or fortunately?) this time I have no real right to do that, since...well, I'm 'writers' in this instance. ^^;

I feel like I should be more ashamed about admitting that...I dunno, maybe I will be after I post this. ⚆‿⚆;There are a lot of valid reasons to be; you can't really deny that. Which is the point of this thread.

I'd just like to discuss the common pitfalls and blind spots that come with being a prose writer who doesn't engage with literature very often, if at all. Especially when it comes to the more popular genres of fiction, like romantasy and dystopia.
I'm probably gonna spend most of my time playing devil's advocate, since...well, as such a writer who feels they have a right to continue writing (and taking pride in my writing) regardless, I don't have much of a choice. ^^; But for those of you who happen to be avid readers as well as writers, I'd be very interested to hear your opinions on the topic and the points I bring up. I mean, as long as you're not, like, insulting me XD

1. Why don't people read?
The usual answers are 'ignorance', 'no attention span', 'anti-intellectual culture', etc...but as the devil's advocate, I'd like to put forth some alternatives: namely, analysis paralysis, and (perceived) lack of diversity.

Analysis paralysis is a big one; my few recent attempts to get back into reading usually failed simply because of the astronomical number of choices...paired with the high likelihood that I WILL be disappointed if I choose wrong. The last series of books I actually made an effort to follow and finish (I used to be an avid reader myself, fyi) was basically a hate-read; I just wanted to see the saga through to the end and find out if any of the stupid decisions were worth it. Spoiler alert: they weren't. ^^;;; I think I still managed to have some fun with it, but I can't say I enjoyed the series, and it probably did some heavy damage to my faith in the YA genre and writing in general.

There's also that perceived lack of diversity...emphasis on 'perceived', because there are many different kinds of books that have been published and that are still being published; anyone who tries to make you believe otherwise is ignorant or lying.
However, let's not pretend that perception doesn't make a difference. :T During my recent forays into the literature world, I have listened to dozens of hours of commentary on all manner of romantasy, smut, and cookie-cutter YA dystopias, and while doing so I heard of maybe 2 individual books that MIGHT actually interest me. Which were both called 'weird' (???) and never described in detail.
That is to say, someone trying to get into reading in the present day who's not primarily interested in romance or convoluted worldbuilding might have some difficulty finding a community to give them good recommendations...and they might as well forget about looking to pop culture for help.

In other mediums like anime and live-action film/TV, there are regularly outliers from the norm that spark massive interest, like Frieren and Dungeon Meshi granting people a reprieve from bland isekai, or Andor teaching jaded Star Wars fans to love the IP again. K-Pop Demon Hunters (which, despite its genuine quality, is definitely overrated at this point XD) did a similar thing, becoming wildly popular by renewing people's faith in original stories and musical animation, after years of mediocrity from Disney/Pixar. And even it was preceded by Into/Across the Spiderverse, and Puss in Boots: The Last Wish.

In the literature world, however...usually when I hear about a hot new book going viral, it's just because it happens to be smuttier and trashier than the usual smut and trash. T_T Like...it feels like the literature ecosystem just never moved past the success of Fifty Shades of Grey; even popular YA of that time period (the Hunger Games, Twilight) aren't really finding successors anymore. Cheap copycats, yes; original works with similar potential to inspire a generation of young writers (rather than inspiring mockery)...I'm not seeing it. Again, I'm sure they're being written, but I'm not seeing them being embraced, if you get my meaning.***

So, basically, between rarely hearing about books I might actually like, having to choose between thousands of books in any given genre (without any way to reliably narrow down good choices without a trusted reviewer on hand), and being a picky consumer who is easily disappointed...the main reason I don't read is because it's, frankly, not worth it at the moment. I would probably have to devote time and energy to making it a worthwhile hobby before I could even reliably enjoy it (again)...and seeing as I already have fully enjoyable hobbies that I can just barely find time for around my creative work and my actual job...yeah, I don't see that happening anytime soon. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this boat. =/

2. Why do people insist on writing, even without reading?
So #1 usual answer: there's a certain prestige around "writing a book" that people can't help but be attracted to, even those who don't care about the arts in any capacity, or who are already successful by other means. ^^; It's a little sad, yes.

However, the devil's advocate once again offers up an alternative explanation: accessibility.

This tends to draw a ton of criticism; and you might find that odd (if not outright concerning) at first, but you'll probably get it when you hear how that criticism is usually phrased: usually goes something like "why are people writing books when what they really want is to make a movie/TV series; just go pitch your screenplays and leave our medium alone".
And yes, I get it. I also get how insulting it can be to learn that many writers see your preferred medium as a 'last resort' or 'second choice' compared to their true artistic vision. We've been having the debate over how Hollywood sees animation as a rough draft for """real""" live-action media; it's not too different from that.

But I think one prominent difference is that, unlike animation OR live-action, writing is extremely accessible. Most people in the world are explicitly taught to read and write by their communities or by law; any six-year old child can potentially create fully-fledged works of literature-- other mediums simply don't work that way. The barrier to entry, no matter the genre, style, subject matter, or level of intricacy...is literally just pencil, paper, and skills deemed so necessary by society that you probably already have them.

I'm not trying to say that writing requires no effort or anything; I'm just saying that it's much easier to get from ideas-->product than it is for other things. And with that in mind...I feel like it's dismissive, almost maliciously ignorant, to tell misguided authors to just "go make a movie" as if it's easy or something. Have you ever tried to make an indie film?? To hire/direct actors, work cameras; acquire sets and costumes...? It's tons of work even before editing, and there are hard limits on what you can feasibly accomplish without access to thousands of dollars and/or hundreds of labor hours.

The same goes for animation...and pitching ideas for either of these things to established studios is a whole different kind of hell, something even artists already working in the industry tend to struggle with.

...Meanwhile, I wrote my first 'successful' novel after school in 10 days. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I just challenged myself to write and edit one chapter a day, and I finished it and put it on Tapas, where it briefly became a Staff Pick.
And I dare any of those "just make a movie/anime" people to read it and recreate the whole story in a visual medium, alone, within the same timeframe. It would be physically impossible; even 10 years might not be enough. But we're supposed to just ignore that reality in the interest of snobbery??

I don't even know if I'm playing devil's advocate anymore; I feel like I'm just being realistic. ^^; Like it or not, writing is the fastest and easiest way to bring stories to life, and when teens who dream of making movies and manga turn to novels instead, there's a good reason for it. I think we need to start viewing that reason for what it is-- accessibility-- and encouraging them to learn the finer points of prose and appreciate the medium as an equal, rather than implying they're 'disrespecting' it for the crime of not choosing it first. I honestly couldn't care less if the writer of a genuinely good story secretly wished it was a TV show instead; it shouldn't matter as much as people imply that it does.

3. What happens when you write without reading...?
Like anyone wandering into a craft they know very little about, you usually end up missing out on a lot of 'common knowledge'-- genre conventions, popular techniques/subject matter (i.e. knowing when you're actually doing something fresh and unique and when you're just reinventing the wheel...), audience expectations, even etiquette when interacting with that audience and with fellow creators. And if you never become 'famous' and just continue to work in obscurity, you may remain in that state of ignorance for years-- that's not just the 'usual' answer; that's fact. ^^; If it's affected me to any significant degree; no one has told me yet...

But I guess my devil's advocate argument would be (a) being ignorant isn't actually that big a deal, especially when it's inadvertent like that. I'm sure there are bibliophile/writers out there who've never touched BookTok or Wattpad or even AO3; they just frequent their local library and scribble their OC stories in Google Docs for their audience of 5 friends-- they're still valid. ^^ And if/when a day comes that they need to understand the wider ecosystem of writers, they'll figure it out.

And (b), I think it's possible to learn a lot of that stuff secondhand. Not all of it, but a lot. Especially if you like media criticism, which I do. ^^
To be honest, I don't engage with a lot of media in general; most of what I know about modern trends and expectations in the writing space is from seeing other yappers yap. About what they hate, what they love, what their communities hate/love, and their experiences with their own work, if they themselves are writers. And I feel like I've gained a lot of insight, even without reading/watching/playing all that stuff myself...I think it's possible for anyone with enough curiosity, willingness to learn, and appreciation for in-depth analysis.

That's why I feel confident writing-- because I feel like I've seen and heard enough to make my own decisions about what I want to do with prose, and how to accomplish them. I also have a nice handful of finished stories under my belt that I've definitely grown from...plus a love for reading and literature that, although it hasn't been indulged in like a decade, was nurtured early and never fully went away. ^^ It would be interesting to hear a take on this topic from a writer who didn't read as a child either (and if you are that person, definitely share!)

***So I feel like I might know of some recent "outlier" books that exploded in popularity, but...a, I don't actually know how recent they are; b, I don't even really know whether they count as 'outliers'-- maybe they just happened to sound less-generic to me; c, I only heard of them through 1 or 2 people I follow on Tumblr, which could easily skew the dataset; and d...I kinda doubt they were actually popular or 'embraced' to the extent that I was thinking of. I hesitate to put The Locked Tomb on the same pop-culture level as The Hunger Games, or even the (generally regarded as far worse, yet more popular and lucrative...y'all see what I mean about this system?) ACOTAR series.
...Basically, feel free to debate me on that point. I mean, I'd * like * to be wrong. ^^;

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

1. Why don't people read?
   I think a lot of people don't read because they didn't learn to read well. The words & sentence structures are challenges. And some are unable to immerse themselves into a story - imagination doesn't "show" them anything in their head.

2. Why do people insist on writing, even without reading?
   Perhaps they have some imagined story they think is super-cool or very interesting. Having not read much, they have the illusion that writing is easy.

3. What happens when you write without reading...?
   Well, that leaves them unprepared for how to present a story, format dialog & so on. It can lead to novel (no pun intended) ways to attempt to present a tale but some of those ways are annoying to people who DO read.
   Having wandered into writing stories, I've found that how I read has changed. I sometimes stop & reread parts to admire how an author painted a character or setting. I notice things I'd like to emulate. It takes me briefly out of a tale but it sometimes causes me to fall in love with the author & seek out more.

[KevinReijnders]

Idk, you kinda have to have an interest in your field if you want to practise it I feel. In this case, a writer that doesn't read doesn't come across as a person actually interested in the craft of writing a book.

One of the best ways to learn how to write a book, is reading books. Good or bad.

I wanna say the next thing as respectfully as I can, it doesn't really come as a surprise to me that you are admitting this. I've read several of your threads by now, and one thing that does stand out was a lot of "I have (strong) opinions on this thing, but I didn't actually read/watch it". This fits that trend.

[ShidoDraws]

(post withdrawn by author, will be automatically deleted in 24 hours unless flagged)

[ShidoDraws]

I can't really answer these questions directly as I actually learned to read before learning how to write. Additionally, I'd argue that being able to read really well does not make you a better writer. When I was younger, I understood my reading materials really well, but when it came to writing I couldn't translate what I read when writing essays. Literally speaking, I couldn't write, not even a haiku. It wasn't until someone came around and taught me how to write. The funny thing was... I think deep down, they knew that I could write. This was where I discover that some people just might not have confidence in their ability to make something. You'd notice this problem more in drawings/paintings, a lot of people believe that they can't ever draw because it's a talent that they never had. If we would just replace the word "talent" with "confidence," then more people could learn to draw.

Therefore, I believe that a lot of the times people just aren't confident. Though reading is crucial to a writer, it is still a good thing that people are writing more, the downside is that people aren't reading the right stuff. Whatever's on the shelf is what the writer can read, so copycats are inevitable. I wouldn't recommend battling this by telling people to stop reading this or that. I would encourage more writers to change the subject. Readers will always be looking for the new Twilight or the next Hunger Games because that is what people ever write. And I only have one word to say. Confidence. We need more of that.

[ShidoDraws]

Like anyone wandering into a craft they know very little about, you usually end up missing out on a lot of 'common knowledge'-- genre conventions, popular techniques/subject matter (i.e. knowing when you're actually doing something fresh and unique and when you're just reinventing the wheel...), audience expectations, even etiquette when interacting with that audience and with fellow creators. And if you never become 'famous' and just continue to work in obscurity, you may remain in that state of ignorance for years-- that's not just the 'usual' answer; that's fact. ^^; If it's affected me to any significant degree; no one has told me yet...

I do not believe that people can be original anymore. I know you mentioned Frieren: Beyond Journey's End. I wouldn't say that it's an original concept. A character living for thousands of years and having existential life crisis about limiting time with people of the past isn't new, or the idea of someone learning to master something before they grow old also isn't something new. What you might be looking at is a different voice. An author's voice is more important than a really cool concept. It is the voice of a confident writer that knows what they want.

[remiquise]

I am a writer who doesn't read, so I'll answer these from my own perspective. That said, I am a no body. I don't have an audience, my work is hardly laudable, writing (just as drawing) is less my hobby as the act of "creation" is-- if that makes sense. Point here being, my words do not hold much weight. This is hardly a defense.
My answers are just my own.

Why don't I read?
I don't watch TV, I don't watch movies, very rarely do I even play video games... I tend to not be interested in other people's stories in those regards, for better or for worse. There is only so many hours in a day, and after work I'd rather pour my time into "creation" rather than "consuming". I find all the things I listed above (as well as reading) incredibly boring. Knowing engaging more with any media would probably be helpful to me in the long run doesn't motivate me to spend my time doing things I don't enjoy. I'm a hobbyist, what does it matter, ya know? I'd just make myself miserable and kill my desire to write if I had to drag myself through the dregs of other hobbies to participate.

Why do I insist on writing, even without reading?
My friend, who was a reader, got me into writing back in middle school-- though even before then I was active on role play forums. Writing was her way of story telling, so I adopted it. Going from "role play" to "proper narration" was an easy enough jump. We would create together. Many stories, including a series that lasted 13 "books" (I have a character from it tattooed on my arm! The one who symbolizes death, to mark the end of that era of my life. But that is very off topic). We aren't friends anymore, but the hobby stuck as another way to create, just as my drawings are. Just because I might only pick up a book every couple of years doesn't mean I'm not a creative person who seeks outlets to release all these silly ideas I have rattling around in my head.

What happens when I write without reading...?
It probably causes me to stagnate a bit, since I don't have much to pull inspiration from. It probably locks me into whatever the hell my current writing style is, since I haven't exposed myself to much outside of the classics. It probably does nothing good for me. Perhaps I'd care more if I didn't have a 9-5, or if I wanted to take this hobby seriously enough to try and publish and make a living off of it (in which case, I would not be posting my work online for free nor be here on tapas to answer such questions).

It'd be dumb to say those who don't read cannot write, I just don't like speaking in absolutes, but I'm sure the lack of reading shows in the work itself. There a reason I do not have an audience. I'm sure the skills I lack from selfishly wasting my time on things I like rather than things that could help me grow plays a role big in that. I, given my disinterest, cannot speak on anyone else's (nor their work's) behalf. I just know it is a flaw. A flaw that makes me feel like a fraud every time I write with a friend and they look to me for advice, or when I go to my local writing group and they look at me as some kind of inspiration and ask me to help them. But hey. Unless they're all being extremely disingenuous, the fact they seek out my thoughts on writing must prove on some level you needn't be much of a reader to write, right?

I don't know if any of this was helpful, but eh.

[abigaillmartin]

Hey @DokiDokiTsuna
Have you considered making a YouTube channel and writing video essays?

I’m just saying. This would be a good topic for one.
Putting that idea out there.

[Lingering_Wanderer]

I'm going to write a very structured response to your post, as these were how my thoughts were organised. Sorry if I sound a bit too academic, but it's just a habit.

1. Accessibility argument is solid. Writing is uniquely accessible compared to other storytelling mediums. It has low barriers to entry, and it's free (if you are purely doing it as a hobby without the intention to publish)

2. Analysis paralysis is real. The paradox of choice in modern book markets is genuine, especially in the absence of trusted recommendation sources.

But here's my 2 cents on the rest of the points you made:

The "perceived lack of diversity" feels like a filter bubble problem. You're consuming commentary about romantasy/smut rather than actually looking for books. If you only watch BookTok drama and "worst books ever" videos, of course you'll think that's all that exists. Literary fiction, horror, sci-fi, mystery, contemporary—these genres are thriving with diverse voices, but you have to actually look for them. "The literature ecosystem just never moved past the success of Fifty Shades of Grey" is quite a sweeping statement to make.

Secondhand learning has severe limits. It's like learning to cook by watching cooking show commentary without ever tasting food or touching ingredients. I don't think a filmmaker makes films without watching films themselves. Like what @KevinReijnders mentioned, you learn how to craft a good story by... reading good stories. Good books are the best teachers.

Bottom line is: Yes, you can write without reading. Some people do it successfully. But you're operating with one hand tied behind your back, and acting like that's a reasonable choice rather than a limitation is... eh, not the best mindset.

At the end of the day, if you are doing it as a hobby and it makes you happy, write to your heart's content.

[TAMAnnoying]

Why don't people read?
They don't have time

Why do people insist on writing, even without reading?
People have a finite amount of time on this planet, if people write instead of read it's because they enjoy it more, same as if they read instead of write. It's relatively impossible to read and write at the same time.

What happens when you write without reading?
You are in fact writing and not being distracted, as it is very hard to write and read at the same time. This is why I always hated taking notes in class.

[ShidoDraws]

That's a pretty interesting perspective. The things I read are quite selective as well. I mean, everyone has different tastes and I believe your approach to writing is justified.

The way people write has very much more to do with the people they surround themselves with. If your friends are all looking to you for advice, perhaps you need to find someone who can give you that feeling as well. Not necessarily someone to give you advice, but someone who you know you can learn from by just watching.

Personally, I don't have anyone to ask me for advice, so I can't say if I'm at that point yet. Though, you probably don't need me to say that since you're already learning from works you read. Hehe.

But, it's worth thinking about. After all, no one is ever the best and we're all always learning.

[AmysGames]

I'm in a similar boat where I don't really feel like I read all that much; can't remember the last time I picked up a novel to read. That said, I've never felt like a particularly bad writer for a few reasons:

1. Growing up around other writers. I've always had friends and family who write, many of whom are incredibly talented, so I picked up a lot from them.

2. Other types of media. Maybe I don't read that many books, but I've read webcomics, played video games, watched movies, and of course read stuff that my (incredibly talented) friends have written. This probably affects my writing style, but I've always been more drawn to "indie" media, haha.

3. Cultural osmosis. I know a lot about what happens in popular books, despite having never read them myself, simply from listening to other people talk about them.

That said, I do think reading more is helpful to becoming a better writer—I feel like I always learn something when I break out of my bubble to check out something new—I just acknowledge that I'm also bad at this, lol.

[Zhengo]

First answering my own experience, I used to read/watch a good bit of media like books, comics, animation, etc. These days not so much as I am busy creating my own comic, so the reason I don't read much is because of time limitations. I do feel like this is actually a big blind spot for my creative process because I think expanding my knowledge of media would help me be a better creator and open up new perspectives for me to explore. Outside of media though, I do try to expand my knowledge of things when I can, and that usually requires reading (sometimes reading wikipedia pages xD). Does this count as reading? I'd actually say yes. I feel as this post is too focused on reading modern fiction, when reading is much more than that.

I agree with @Lingering_Wanderer. I'm not sure where you're getting your sources of the current modern literature scene, but be aware that media commentary channels get their best engagement on drama and ranting. So obviously a lot of these channels end up becoming places where a lot of their content centers around them doing rants about trashy books. I listen to a great deal of these commentary videos too, I'm pretty sure I've heard more than a few of these youtubers complain about how they're being forced to watch/read slop so they can get their buck.

Second, if you are not seeing any good recommendations in the modern literature scene, have you considered taking a look at classic literature? There's usually a good reason these works survive the test of time, and you can also of course find a lot of think pieces that analyze and even criticize these works. Also, by "classics" you don't need to limit yourself to the stuff you read in high school. The most recent book I read was The Murder of Roger Akroyd by Agatha Christie (famous mystery writer) and quite enjoyed the mystery, characters, and the reveal motivated me to do a reread of the book. As far as I know this book is not common in most school curriculums. There is a wide breadth of classic literature that is going unnoticed that isn't just your usual Shakespeare or John Steinbeck. A lot of classic literature also tends to give you a look at how people lived their lives at the time period the book came out.

If you still find the classic literature world uninteresting to you, you can also consider researching mythology and folklore, and by extension, history. I actually fall into rabbitholes of random historical time periods from time to time and it gives me great perspectives of how other people view the world from different time periods and situations, which helps me better see the perspective of my own characters. Researching cultural history such as mythology, folklore, religions, etc. also helps you in worldbuilding, and a lot of myths tend to go off the deep end in whackiness that is actually not quite explore well in fictional literature. Also, exploring all that will probably at some point end up making you fall into the philosophy and political theory rabbithole. Heck, you can even switch your media commentary background noise to historical podcast background noise, so it won't be a huge time sink for you to set aside time to read something.

Another area you could read - nonfiction and psychology articles. Again it helps with worldbuilding and better fleshing out your characters. Though this part might be more daunting for people to read if they are more of a fiction reader haha.

Basically, I consider reading as part of the "research" aspect of writing.

• The most obvious aspect a writer needs to research - how to WRITE. Reading a lot of works, and a lot of works with good writing technique. Will help you avoid awkward prose and writing mistakes. I helped critique a novel recently that had a lot of issues with redundancy ("Sorry", he apologized) and using the wrong word for things (writing he is "burned" by the prophecy instead of he is "burdened" by the prophecy), and other common beginner tendencies like telling too much instead of showing. Learning the writer of it is only a "casual reader" was not a surprise for me.
• Research into real world aspects, such as culture, history, philosophy, etc. as to better depict a setting that engages readers and makes a world feel lived in. Allow you to better navigate your story's conflicts that may be political in nature. Better understand your own characters and what actions and behaviors they could exhibit. One of my favorite manga - Fullmetal Alchemist, was built on a ton of research
• Research things just so aspects of your story will be more accurate in general. I don't need you to get accuracy of stuff in your story down to the most minute detail, but at least enough so even people who have knowledge of said aspect can suspend their disbelief to a degree. If I see a hacking scene that uses a matrix wallpaper I'm gonna laugh my ass off.

All of that research will probably require you to do at least some level of reading. Just watching commentary and critique might give you stuff about broader what to do/not to do about writing, but it's like taking an introductory college class. You know general stuff, but do you actually know the details? I have a degree in Computer Science, and my college coursework gave me understanding of broad concepts that would show up in my career, but to do the stuff at my job, I still need to do my own research, read documentation of how a language or framework works. The degree doesn't automatically zap me with all the knowledge of CS and SE.

Same idea with writing. Even if you say you are writing within a completely fantasy world with its own law of physics, how will you know if the social cultures in your world make any sense based on your own historical context? How will you know that you are properly understanding your own character, if you gave them a background you yourself didn't experience?

Romantasy is in high supply these days because writers think they can get away with only writing what they know and not do any reading. No need to think about real world accuracy, it's a fantasy world, I'm making stuff up! No need to think about how characters respond to their surroundings, we only care about romance baby, and that's what everyone (ignoring aro people) can feel!

[DokiDokiTsuna]

it doesn't really come as a surprise to me that you are admitting this. I've read several of your threads by now, and one thing that does stand out was a lot of "I have (strong) opinions on this thing, but I didn't actually read/watch it". This fits that trend.

So, ordinarily a statement like this wouldn't bother me (you wouldn't be the first to point that out) but in this case it kinda does, because I feel like you're framing it as an inherent negative. And I have to ask: why? Do you think any opinion on anything you haven't watched in its entirety is automatically unfounded...? What, specifically, is wrong with the opinions that I've expressed??

I mean, it's not as if I pretend that I HAVE watched/read [insert media] when I haven't; I've never felt any need to lie about that kind of thing or misrepresent it. On the contrary, I think it's important to be honest about the limitations of your perspective, even when you do experience media firsthand. And when I haven't engaged with a piece of media in a certain way or at all, I'm very open about it.

So...if I'm not lying; if I'm just giving my impression of a thing and the concepts surrounding it, and asking other people for their potentially-more-informed perspectives (which is usually what I do)...where's the problem???
If it annoys you on a personal level, fine. But if you're pointing it out to me, that implies that it's more than just personal; that someone or something is being harmed in some way that I should be aware of. And for the life of me I can't see it.

This just feels reminiscent of the behavior you see in nerd/fandom spaces, where you need to "show receipts" and "prove you're a real fan" before anyone will allow you to speak. And I'm sure this won't surprise you either, but I've always hated that kind of attitude.

I would rather be around a 'sloppy' fan who just wants to yap about the thing they like than a 'strict' fan who will outright quiz people on whether they deserve to be spoken to about the thing they like. And I assume most people feel the same...so I've never felt embarrassed about walking into a space and saying "hey, I've heard some things about [thing], are any of y'all fans who want to tell me more?" just out of mild curiosity.
Again, most people are happy to share; the same way I'm happy to share details on any of the things I watch to anyone who wants to hear them, for any reason. It's just...a way of making conversation (which I thought might be appreciated on a quiet forum like this one...). And if you don't like that I'm a part of that conversation without any prior intimate knowledge of [thing], then all you have to do is keep scrolling.

But if you want receipts, let's do receipts: so of the ten previous topics I've started on this forum, all of them are titled with a focus on concepts rather than specific pieces of media-- people don't seem to realize it, but that's on purpose. When I want to just flat-out criticize a story, I do; when I want to talk about a theme or phenomenon that just happens to be related (i.e. most of the time) I structure my essays around that instead, and there IS a difference. Maybe it's only noticeable to me, but it's there. :T

Anyway-- of those ten, four of them do feature fairly heavy secondhand references to media. But six out of ten are squarely focused on things I HAVE watched/read, or no media in particular; just isolated concepts like common tropes and writing techniques.
Of the uglier four, I openly state that I haven't interacted with the media myself in all of them-- again, I'm not deceiving anyone. And only ONE of them actually spends a substantial amount of time on the referenced media...for the rest, I spend way more time talking about the broader concepts than the references, like a 3:1 ratio at worst.

So...yet again, I'm not seeing a problem here. Only one topic out of my last ten feels like a truly unflattering example of this 'trend"...which didn't seem to bother anyone in the thread, mind you. I felt like I learned a lot about a popular new anime while giving people who watched it a space to vent their frustrations. And if I'm spending 1/10th of my time here maybe being annoying, but still providing a win-win situation for the users on the forum...I feel like I can accept that. I hope that's what you wanted me to reflect on, because that's my takeaway.

But hey. Unless they're all being extremely disingenuous, the fact they seek out my thoughts on writing must prove on some level you needn't be much of a reader to write, right?

I must say, I've thought that many times myself... ^^;

I think a subconscious motivation for starting this topic was garden-variety imposter syndrome, based on the fact that my writing has been almost exclusively praised, and yet...well, see the OP. It's hard not to feel weird about it, unless you accept that maybe you don't have to be an avid reader in order to, at the very least, maintain strong writing skills. Which still feels blasphemous to say, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Hey @DokiDokiTsunaHave you considered making a YouTube channel and writing video essays?

I did, actually... ^^; I've linked it a couple times here and there: https://www.youtube.com/@dokidraws7945

The subject matter on the channel is much more narrow than my forum ramblings; I mostly discuss character design and fandom, with a surprisingly heavy emphasis on storytelling...plus one random Splatoon tutorial. XD Needless to say, I feel like I'm still finding my footing with it; especially after being on hiatus for half of this year...but that's a lament for another day...

"The literature ecosystem just never moved past the success of Fifty Shades of Grey" is quite a sweeping statement to make.

OK, I think I need to clarify this...so when I used the word 'ecosystem' (as opposed to 'community' or 'fandom') that was on purpose, because I was including the publishing industry and its aggressive limits on what is considered 'profitable' literature (therefore, what is considered worthy of heavy promotion and considered 'worthwhile' for new authors to attempt), which seems much more restrictive than in other mediums. Plenty of authors and booktubers have already discussed these problems...again, I'd like to be wrong; I'm just going by what I've heard.

I agree on the 'filter bubble' thing; that's what I was addressing when I said the 'emphasis on perceived' bit. It definitely applies to many consumers...but I don't think it applies to me, necessarily. Believe it or not, I don't watch tons of shock-value videos on smutty literature, because I do not want to hear about them. I know how YouTube algorithms work. ^^;
Instead, I am constantly forced to hear about them while watching videos about other kinds of popular books and broader issues in the industry, which speaks to their ubiquitousness, if nothing else.

Bottom line is: Yes, you can write without reading. Some people do it successfully. But you're operating with one hand tied behind your back, and acting like that's a reasonable choice rather than a limitation is... eh, not the best mindset.

1) I fully admitted it was a limitation...that was the very first paragraph under Item #3...
2) I'm probably playing devil's advocate again, but I think a limitation can be a reasonable choice, as long as it makes for an entertaining experience. Like playing a video game with the sound off, or with the minimum number of lives or the weakest weapon. Some people like to be challenged, even if those challenges are self-imposed. ^^;
Although when it comes to creative endeavors like art and writing, it's honestly even more subjective...like, how little knowledge counts as a "limitation", as opposed to just deciding you know enough to accomplish what you want? I don't think there's a pinnacle of artistic knowledge to definitively reach, so...who makes the call? Who decides whether you're "operating with one hand tied behind your back", or whether you only need one hand to create? Just throwing that out there.

Does this count as reading? I'd actually say yes. I feel as this post is too focused on reading modern fiction, when reading is much more than that.

You made way too many points that I agree with on some level, so I'm just gonna focus on this one, because it's very pertinent-- YES, all those things you listed count as reading, and I indulge in nonfiction reading quite often. I have my dedicated Wikipedia/Wiktionary tabs open at all times, I love a good news article, and the most recent (new) work of literature I HAVE read was actually a historical document on Mary, Queen of Scots, in the original French.
Additionally, I probably spend a less-than-healthy amount of time scrolling YouTube and social media comments, trawling for insights and opinions and inspiration for topics like these...in the literal sense, I probably spend most of my life reading.

BUT...the reason I didn't mention any of that is because I felt it would distract from the point. ^^; Because as many have noted, reading is important when you're a writer because it's supposed to inform your work...and very little of that informs my work. I write fantasy stories and philosophical dramas, not nonfiction. So it doesn't really 'count' in that way, y'know? I'm on Wikipedia to get ideas for things to put into my story, not ideas on how to write my story.

And seeing how well-received the OP was as it is (/s) I don't think "anyway, I spend hundreds of hours doomscrolling Tumblr and reading random articles about tube worms, and technically that counts as reading, so checkmate!" would have helped matters. ^^; But I DO appreciate you pointing that out.

[Zhengo]

BUT...the reason I didn't mention any of that is because I felt it would distract from the point. ^^; Because as many have noted, reading is important when you're a writer because it's supposed to inform your work...and very little of that informs my work. I write fantasy stories and philosophical dramas, not nonfiction. So it doesn't really 'count' in that way, y'know? I'm on Wikipedia to get ideas for things to put into my story, not ideas on how to write my story.

Refer to my second to last paragraph where I address the fantasy part. Even if you are writing a fantasy story, you can still apply the stuff you've read in non-fiction to the work in the how and not just as ideas. If you recently read a historical document of a monarch, and if you are working in a world where there is a monarchy, now you should apply that knowledge to make sure your existing plotlines and conflicts pertaining to your fantasy monarchy are grounded and make sense. If they don't, excise or fix them.

This is all how, knowing what and what not to do in a specific setting. This is just an example among many. I'm not suggesting you read nonfiction to write nonfiction, I'm suggesting you read nonfiction to better understand the cause and effect of why society would operate this way, why individuals may operate this way, in what ways would certain actions affect the story's society, etc. Even if the society in your story cannot be directly similar to whatever nonfiction you are reading, it's still good in general to have this knowledge in the back of your mind so you can make more organic settings and characters. The basis is that becoming more informed in general will make you a more well-rounded person and equip you to better execute any ideas you have for your writing.

This is literally the reasoning behind why there are colleges that subscribe to the idea that everyone should take some kind of liberal arts courses, even if you're studying in a non-liberal arts degree. So yes, it 'counts'.

Also, well, I wrote a lot because I wanted to be specific about my examples and try to highlight things to read that at least has some basis of quality or utility. I actually wouldn't really count scrolling social media to be a form, or at least an effective form, of reading. It can spawn ideas, sure, but you can also do that by traveling the world. Maybe sometimes you might sift through a gem that leads you down a rabbithole of useful info, but I see it more like spending most of the time reading below average quality fanfic.

[remiquise]

Personally, I don't have anyone to ask me for advice, so I can't say if I'm at that point yet. Though, you probably don't need me to say that since you're already learning from works you read. Hehe.

So selective about my reading I ain't read a book in like 3 years--

That aside, I joined a local writing group in order to find people I can learn off of. Tragically, no one there really has a writing style I want to emulate. It's a group with many differing styles and genres; I can learn more little things here and there-- but never big, sweeping things I can prescribe to my work as a whole. Perhaps some day I'll stumble across other groups, but for now... I'll gladly take whatever crumbs I can sweep up around me lol

I think a subconscious motivation for starting this topic was garden-variety imposer syndrome, based on the fact that my writing has been almost exclusively praised, and yet...well, see the OP. It's hard not to feel weird about it, unless you accept that maybe you don't have to be an avid reader in order to, at the very least, maintain strong writing skills. Which still feels blasphemous to say, but ¯(ツ)/¯

Imposture syndrome is a cruel mistress. Many times I've been praised for my writing and may times have I been asked about what I read immediately after. It is just kind of expected, reading and writing usually coexist. Definitely understand the awkward feeling as you hum and haw after being asked that, thinking up a way to answer that doesn't make you sound either really stupid, or like you're trying to say "I'm better than you" in some messed up way-- as if reading is "uncool" or something...

I suppose we can just relate writing to any other skill. Someone doesn't have to care all that much for art spaces to be a good artist. Maybe they'd be better if they bothered to look at references more often, flipped open an anatomy book, or read through some tutorials once in a while, but that doesn't mean someone cannot get good without such things. Some people just have an easier time visualizing and putting pen to paper than others-- just as some people might just grasp language/story telling without being all that interested in reading through examples, ya know? Yeah, I'd likely be better if I opened a book more often, but I can string together a story without that.

[abigaillmartin]

@DokiDokiTsuna dude! You have 1k subscribers! That’s insane!
I mean. To me I guess. I have yet to make videos and stuff. I’m not quite ready.

[Lingering_Wanderer]

off tangent, i'm also a tech grad haha

[Lensing]

I subscribed too, good channel

[NickRowler]

I don't read as much nowadays, mostly because...

1. Not having time. I guess during my freetime I would rather watch a TV show or play a video game.

2. Not being in the mood. Sort of ties into point 1.

3. Having a hard time finding stuff I am into. I don't think it's a diversity issue, I think it's just finding something with a story and writing style I would enjoy. If anything, it's the opposite issue, there is so many books out there that it's hard to single out what I would even enjoy. I feel like when I was a teen, I would just ignore bad writing and still get through a book. But I feel like now, if the narrative is clunky, I have a hard time getting through it. If I don't enjoy a book, I stop reading it.