Oct 2020
27 / 33
Oct 2020
Oct 2020
skicoak
Oct '20

A different point of view...

My other art hustle, that pays the bills, has managed to start siphoning away too much of my time and creative energy. As a result, my efforts for the Oddly Vanilla collective have really been slow and we're updating so infrequently now. It's the end of the year and I feel creatively burnt out working on stuff for others...instead of investing more into the projects I care about.

It feels like I have stopped betting on me and am just accepting mercenary gigs that have NO chance of getting me to future goals.

I need to find a better balance in 2021.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Oct '20

Okay.

My hot take is
It's okay to not have a plan. It's okay to jump in with no experience. It's okay to start a big project first without any prior comics under your belt.

I don't like hearing "Make a small comic first or else you'll never make it and you'll burn out." Dagnabbit, all I want to do is make a huge comic, and then make smaller ones that tie into the big one. I'm aware it's going to take time, tears, and blood to make it work.

BrambleberrySquirrel
Oct '20

I actually really agree with your opinion here. Making a comic started as a way to force myself to stick to a weekly schedule and make art regularly so I could improve as an artist. I like being able to tell a story, but the art is more important to me than the narrative. There’s no way I’d have nearly as many people enjoying my art if it wasn’t packaged with that narrative though.

ar-ninetysix
Oct '20
nathanKmcwilliams

I actually agree with this, even though I tend to recommend making shorter stuff! My issue's actually with not knowing exactly what you're aiming for, you know? If you got a plan, good on you. If you wanna improvise the whole way, good on you. If you wanna have a rough idea of where you're going, good on you. Just be in control what you're making, know your limits and all that

Macarenaoftime
Oct '20

I personally think making comics it's not the best way to improve general art skills.
From my experience, by making comics you learn skills that are very specific to well...make comics.
You may learn how to color faster and cleaner, to make your characters more appealing, to do lettering, to find a proper pacing, to draw clear silhouettes, to do paneling right, etc. But basic things like anatomy or even lighting....not so much?
Some things are better to learn by carefully and slowly observing and analyzing and not by trying to tell stories (especially on a weekly basis).

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Oct '20
ar-ninetysix

Here's the thing. I know that a lot of people do need to do comics the way I don't like. And that's okay. But don't disparage the few of us that do things contrary to the majority.
You never know who's going to be successful.
There's so many factors. I mean...look at Toriyama. Probably the most successful pantser in the business XD

But yes. I agree it is very important to understand that good storytelling isn't just something you vomit out willy nilly. I still think it's important to have an outline and to have other people take a look at your drafts.
The only reason I don't have an editor is because I wouldn't be able to afford it. But at the very least I can ask people to beta read you know?

Caro
Oct '20
Macarenaoftime

Gosh, I agree with this so much!

Early on in my career I was offered a gig for a comics company that shall be unnamed for a graphic novel for a cartoon property that shall also remained unnamed and I was.... absolute trash at making comics at this point (okay maybe still). I only said no because I was against their low page rates.

Years later I looked back at this companies work and noticed they hired a LOT of popular illustrators who did not draw comics at all and it reallly, really showed.
For some of them it was their first comic! They hadn’t been able to capture what made their illustrations so good in the comic format yet let alone have a grasp on any of the other more technical comics-specific aspects. A lot of these ended up looking kind of.... amateurish? You would never guess their work outside of comics was very polished and professional looking it was honestly baffling.

I think about this a lot and maybe I should check in with some of these artists and see what they’re up to these days

skicoak
Oct '20
nathanKmcwilliams

Fundamentally, the issue is that the majority of starting creators really aren't built to weather the things that are going to assault/beat them down on that first project... especially if it's tied directly to their "dream" project.

Folks are just trying to pass along sage wisdom to the majority, not derail the few that might have the gumption to actually do it.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Oct '20

I suppose so. I guess I have a fairly rare personality trait among my other creators. Because...man, I really don't see others using the same language I do in regards to being self-sufficient.

As I'm fond of saying: There's always an exception to the rule. I've got a long way to go before I even reach a modicum of success. But at least I've got my determination, which has brought me out of burn-outs and depression, so I know it's not just temporary.

I do understand that the common practice of working your way up through smaller projects is good advice for most creators. Just not for me.

(Or maybe it's just too late for me, and I'm too old to care to try it a new way. :grin:)

endlessuprising
Oct '20
BrambleberrySquirrel

I agree! I did exactly that, I made the biggest comic first, a five-year weekly debut because go big or go home right? :stuck_out_tongue: I'm glad I did, because my hands deteriorated so quickly that if I hadn't told the biggest story first, I'd never have been able to it several short comics later! Work in whichever order you like, do what brings you happiness, but do make sure to rest your hands and be kind to yourselves in the process! :slight_smile:

Missapogee
Oct '20

Honestly, my reason for making a comic kinda silly

I wrote my entire comic story into a book without publishing it, I first drew the characters in the story on index cards back when I was in high school and have drawn privately them since. I think I could have been okay never publishing it, but I started doing this webcomic because I wanted to prove to myself that I could. I just wanted to see if I was capable of committing and following through on such a big project. Getting attention for my art and story is nice and all, but mostly I wanted to push myself and have this on the "list of things I'm capable of doing" I think having a list like that helps with the artist self doubt, y'know? Plus, now I've been drawing at least a little every day, which is a cool bonus for improvement.

TheGentleArtist
Oct '20

It's okay to not be fully serious on your first comic. If you are testing the waters with it to see how it goes and choose whether to continue it or drop it is fine; plus you can be serious about it later if you do continue it.

Art quality does not fully dictate your comic's success. ONE, the creator of One Punch Man and Mob Psycho 100, is one of the good examples of this; his web manga of both series are of bad quality, but still got popular enough to get both a manga and anime adaptation. I have seen comics on here that have a lot of subscribers, but decent or lower art quality. Besides, as time goes on, you'll improve :smile: :thumbsup:

Macarenaoftime
Oct '20

Oh, wait, I got another one:

Stories that go everywhere and nowhere are underrated!

This might sound weird but I think stories are more than just the plot.

EmmyPax
Oct '20

This is my hot take:

Most comics creators are artists first, writers second, and it shows. I think that's where the whole "you don't actually have to be the best artist to succeed" thing comes from - because really great comics writing is rare, and so it stands out when you come across it, even if the art isn't as strong as what it feels like it should be for the level of popularity.

It's funny, because I think there's a bit of a paradox - drawing the panels takes WAY more time than coming up with/scripting the story. So it feels like making comics IS about the art, but when the writing is weak, the whole project can really suffer. I've read a lot of indie comics that I want to love, but they're bogged down by their writing, even though the visuals are beautiful.

I have a lot of friends who are artists and a lot of friends who are writers, and it's struck me that the only ones who ever seem to try their hands at making comics are the ones who are artists, even though you need both skill sets. Obviously, these are giant generalizations, but it's a trend I've seen. Overall, I think writing for comics is really, really hard, because you need to have that visual brained piece, but also the more analytical, language focused ability too, and those don't always match up in people.

So yeah. Kudos to all of you who are writing your comics! It is very hard to do well.

jcmraz
Oct '20

Honestly I don't know if it's unpopular but:

If you aren't attracted to the art of making comics like a drug addict then you probably shouldn't do it. You spend years of effort creating something in slow motion that most likely very few people will ever read. Comics, especially if you're doing it alone, are one of the most difficult artistic endeavors you can pursue. If you're alone you have to be a competent writer, be able to portray architecture, human anatomy, animals, etc (literally everything) at a reasonably high level, be versed in color most times, understand graphic design and layout principles for panelling, as well as understand storytelling, blocking and other visual media and film concepts. You're the director, crew, actors, make up artist, costume designer, graphic designer, advertising specialist, storyboarder, writer,... You are doing literally every job possible in visual media and because of that, if you're lucky and are able to make a living at it you're putting out maybe 2 or 3 pages a week working full time. It might take you a year or more to finish a single story arc at a snail's pace. The world blurs around you as you focus on your slow motion story obsessively.

I'm not saying I don't love doing it lol But it's a LOT when you really get down to it when you're trying to put out something at a higher level.

liamnaughton7
Oct '20
EmmyPax

I feel this so much it hurts. I'm considering taking up prose in the hope that bereft of illustration I can make more headway as a writer.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Oct '20
jcmraz

I agree with this. Making comics is so intensive, that you've got to really really get it into a habitual groove. Practice, draw, practice, write, practice, paneling...repeat ad infinitum.

LCT_m_a_d
Oct '20

This does not apply to those who only want to create for fun.

If you are creating multiple series/projects and your least favorite one is way more popular than your more interesting ones take full advantage of the opportunity and focus on that one. Embracing "accidental wins" and surrendering to it is far more enjoyable (and likely to bring success) than trying to make your plan work.

You should eventually adopt these successes of course once they're ingrained,
but not prior to being adopted by them first.

DiegoPalacios
Oct '20

Every writing rule has an exception......Writing conventions are not absolutes, just guidelines.....

What works for a story may not work for another. A good writer is the one that knows when is better to follow the rules and when is better to break them.