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Feb 2018

I have not seen Coco, so this is my opinion separate from that.

Yes, mostly because I think Pixar is sort of struggling with its identity. When Pixar was brand new, it was seen as it's own unique thing with their wholesome 3D films, during a time when most other companies were still doing 2D. But I feel now, there are many companies, including Disney's own animation department, that can make similar 3D films. So what is the point of Pixar? Heck the line between Pixar and other 3D Disney films is so blurred that a young kid can't tell the difference. I know Dreamsworks has gone the route of trying to experiment more with character models, so maybe Pixar should try to experiment more with stuff like that.

I also feel that Pixar has a lot of pressure from Disney to push out about a film a year AND the film has to translate well to merch. Added the pressure to keep up with modern 3D animation and to always add something to a film that is "new" or "wows" people. I found baby Dory's eyes in Finding Dory to be unsettling, I get they were trying to make them super detailed and HD, but I found them creepy. The plot was sort of muddled with too many side characters (for merch, my guess). I sort of wish Pixar put some more effort fixing the kinks in the story instead of worry about the super fine details.

I don't think they have lost their way...
I am pretty sure that Pixar can do much more in terms of stories and ideas, but is owned by Disney (the queen of "making a movie simply for the profit" as you say in the first post)... they don't have exactly the freedom they need to release better products.

By the way, I think a lot of movie companies have the issue of running out of ideas. There are a lot of sequels/prequels/spinoffs/remakes etc. that aren't even that good, or simply useless.
Unfortunately, money is more important than ideas, so why try to do something new when you can pick some already known characters and put them into a "new" movie? Less risks, more money. Who needs new ideas when the old ones still work so well?

This is not a good thing for cinema, and art in general. Probably if the audience starts to avoid watching the 7th remake of the same thing, probably we could see some new ideas, too. And more quality in the storylines.

Coco was good, by the way. In terms of graphics and animation, it's impressive. The story was nothing special, but it has some parts that are very sad, especially near the end, where you probably will shed a tear (ok, a lot of tears :smiley: )
The worst choice in the movie? To put a 25-minutes long mini movie of Frozen. Impressive but a bit too long (and boring). I prefer Pixar's 5-minutes shorts.

Short answer: yea but not entirely

Long answer: It's not that they can not think of more ideas, it's more that they're currently prioritising sequels in order to generate more hype and make tonnes of money on them. It's certainly working if you look at Finding Dory's success. Also, despite being their worst work critically, Cars is incredibly successful financially. They've kind of done what a lot of studios are doing - they've started to focus on what sells. Toy cars sell, and so do stylised sea creatures that the audience already likes.
I'm sure they've got plenty of ideas pitching all the time, and they're just putting them off for later. There's no way that with all the talented writers they have there's no new ideas. It really wouldn't surprise me if they rode this sequelitis out for another year or two, though. It's making bank and they'll need that money to invest in the original stuff again... (That is, if they're smart enough to realise that it can be used for that)

hmmm
I feel it is rather unfair per se to hold any film company to a high standard and say they must only produce at that standard. Everyone has flops and mistakes. Film [animation especially] is still pretty goddamn new if you compare it to say opera, theater/plays, and other forms of media [outside of prose and comics..]. It's barely 100 years old counting the mainstream silent era. That's considerably not old.

As well you have to remember animation is considerably experimental, yes, even Frozen which re-used models and the like as some say. Due to this storytelling will be just as experimental and if you only stick to one set "formula" what fun is that?

I respect Pixar but I don't really consider them all that ground breaking in storytelling. Yeah they've got some good stuff. I'm a huge fan of Coco and a few others. But they are just another fish in the film company pond.

There will be flops, mehs, and greats. It's pretty harsh to put them on a pedestal and then threaten to kick them off when they don't make what someone else considers top quality.

Besides...they need profit too.
Disney has done cashcow films for this very reason.
coughlookupthestorybehindherculesvstreasureplanet*cough*

I guess what I'm getting at is...No. I don't think they're losing their way or whatever. There was never a "way" to begin with.

Am I the only one who never thought pixar was some mastermind of storytelling? I think maybe the incredibles and toy story at most were the ones stood out to me though even then I don't feel really shocked their work is lacking in recent years, I never felt they were breaking new ground to begin with. At most I can think of they broke away from the disney formula and made 3D a viable animation art form.

...And i'm a 3D major so what i'm saying is basically pure blasphemy and heresy if other 3D majors knew I said this lol

i think it's way more common then it seems
people just aren't that vocal over it due to being quieted down
/ shrugs

sacrilege! haha, just kidding. Ponyo was a total miss for me. But I love Princess Mononoke, Totoro and Kiki's Delivery service.

I think there is always the possibility that we are just growing up and getting older. When you were younger, perhaps earlier movies filled you with wonder, and now your tastes in movies have changed? I LOVED Up! But my toddler? He hates it and it doesn't hold his attention at all. Moana is his favorite movie. (He has seen it 1000x and he is completely absorbed in it) My favorite Disney movies were Sleeping Beauty and Snow White. By today's standards they would be horribly 1-dimensional boring movies.

So, I think its all relative. The studios have to balance making a profit, giving creative freedom to directors, and focusing on particular target demographics.

I don't think you can be a big name and do something different in cinema. Generally, they won't touch anything new until they've seen it done in independent cinema about a thousand times successfully. Then they start using it too.

Kind of. It's like Square Enix and the Final Fantasy franchise relationship with sequels: there comes a time that the easy money has to come in. And sequels are oh so easy money.

I don't think this means they lost their way. I thought Inside Out was wonderful, and even in their sequels, we'll always have Toy Story 3, which is what a good sequel looks like to me: full of purpose and heart while discovering new paths. I'd argue the only real bad movie Pixar ever released is Cars 2 (which is awful dear lord).
They were never the chosen one!! It's too much pressure!! Look what it did to poor Anakin???? He went bonkers!!!

@joannekwan @KoreanTacos Bug's Life was my favorite as a kid!! But it is true, it's considered a bad movie nowadays and I'm not really sure why. It feels like an arbitrary decision.

I think every big franchise or company goes through a slump at some point. Certain genres also feel it too.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe was a novelty idea at first, but with everyone else now trying to copy their formula and with Marvel Studios being at the point where they don't have to try anymore with their films (which is why I thought 2017 was a bit underwhelming for superhero films particularly Marvel ones.), their flaws are becoming apparent even to the casual audience which is why I'm hoping Infinity War will really shake the MCU to its core.

I loved Coco!!!
I am not so sure but maybe I feel it closer home because I am latin? I mean even my dad cried after they sang Remember me!!

I don't think they ran out of ideas but I do know it take years to make a movie so I suppose it is fair to want to make more sequels in order to win more money.

PD: For me Toy Story 4 would be an error (I hope I am mistaken).

I also hate Frozen. I think it would have been more interesting if they would have gathered a little more inspiration form the snow queen.

No really, they said that. Although apparently Up wasn't one of the post movies? Whoops.

Eh, yes and no. I was a cynical kid, and had a lot of opinions about movies despite liking them. Probably could have picked apart a lot of the Disney and Pixar movies, but I have added to my repertoire since then. I'd agree in this day and age that movies like Snow White would be dumb as hell, but for the time Disney's movies were revolutionary. Same thing with Pixar's Toy Story, how it used CGI was revolutionary despite the movie's glaring flaws.
Now amazing CGI and traditional animation aren't really new, so the story and character flaws are more noticeable. Although I feel like if Disney were to come out with a traditionally animated feature film now people would crap their pants.

I'm admittedly more lenient on older movies because of their age, lack of technology at the time and such, product of that era's mindset.

That being said, While I know Pixar's post movies have a lot of flaws, they still feel more solid than their newer works, they had time to properly flesh stuff out for later post movies while working on current ones. They had stories to tell, now the focus is on finances and it feels like they're just trying to pump stuff out. (which is totally understandable, survival is important) Also like I said before, everyone hits creative bankruptcy eventually.

Edit: @Chronitis FFF RIIIGHT? Or at least make the main conflict last more than 1 day and a night. Show people and business, wildlife being affected by the perpetual winter. Also the thing with them pointing out the "falling in love instantly" trope only to have Anna or whatever fall for another guy in a day is dumb? Why even have a romantic subplot. I also can't buy Elsa or her sister making it to a far off mountain top in the span of a few hours, ice powers or not.

I've always thought pixar was meh. Pixar's strenght has always been short films, and that's how it'll probably be until Disney completely fucks them over.

It shows so much in any pixar film. They're just strung together around a few moments that are great (=the short films), the rest is just mumbo jumbo filling the time.

Nah, I just have an unhealthy interest in cartoons and can rant about them all day. Also I really liked the original Snow Queen story.

@DaniBoy

I feel you, it's my favourite fairytale so frozen was just a whole load of MEH