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Aug 2021

Like I said, there's personal preference and different schools of thought about the spacing when it comes to webtoons. The point is not to blindly 'leave larger gaps' or 'put your panels closer together' because someone said you should, but to think about using the space you're working with effectively to convey mood, tone, and pacing. Sometimes that calls for more space, sometimes that calls for less.


Scott McCloud has a couple of incredible books on the topic of comics and how to construct them, and while he's working in the more traditional page format, he delves into the use of physical space to illustrate how you can handle pacing and flow by manipulating how big or small panels are, how much space is between them, and where you place them.

As far as the sound-effect text labeling thing, it's a similar situation: it's less about 'do it' or 'don't do it' because someone else thinks it's a good strategy, it's about using those things effectively to convey the story in the best way possible, and that means thinking about the reason why the words are (or aren't) there in the panels. Take a look at this page from Scott McCloud's 'Making Comics' where he breaks down the different 'categories' of possible relationships between words and pictures in any given comic panel:

He goes on to explain how each of these types can be used, and what they bring to the table.

Y'know what? I'm just gonna leave a link to a free PDF of both of his books on comics here, because it is one of the single best resources for comics creators.
You'll have to trust a random link from a stranger on the internet if you want to read it, but I can guarantee that I have loaded this link and my computer did not, in fact, explode:
https://pdfcoffee.com/qdownload/comics-scott-mccloud-understanding-comics-the-invisible-art-pdf-free.html7
http://www.yorku.ca/yamlau/readings/Making_Comics.pdf5

hatch marks don't in and of themselves make the drawing more 'good looking', they're just a thing I'm a fan of for adding depth and form. Plenty can be done beyond that. Like I said, that's just MY sensibilities and how I like to do it. I do think that using the same pen for both your lineart and your shading will help the art feel more cohesive; sort of like how legos fit together because they're all built with the same base components and structure. I've seen it in a lot of comics: Soft, painterly colors with thick, bold linework, smooth and crisp colors with chunky and messy linework, etc etc. Making sure your colors 'mesh' well with your linework can be a really difficult thing, but it can also REALLY help make your artwork look more cohesive and complete.

Alright lets do this:

Hahaha I'm really enjoying reading this thread.

By the way, you should totally get paid to do this sort of thing.

Let me add mine really fast before you do start charging .... :smiley:

Thanks for the links to those books, dude! Definitely gonna be a good resource

Hi this is very random but I showed the "shut up." Image to a friend of mine who teaches a college comics course and he liked it enough that he wanted to potentially use it in his class to show students. Does he have permission to do this and if yes, how would you want to be credited?

one hundred million percent YES, the credit isn't even necessary, but if he wants to credit it to me, D Noble is my actual publishing name... should probably change my forum name to reflect that. And get a PFP...
The same goes for any of the drawings I've done here, Presumably also with the consent of the original artist if it's a draw-over, but please, use any of the stuff I've done here however you like! my objective is to help people learn!

gonna be honest, there's not a whole lot I can say. Gag-a-day strips rely so much less on camera-work and composition than what I usually do, so as long as the drawing is solid (which yours is), then it really comes down to comedy writing, which I am not qualified to talk about in any sort of detail.
The only real critique I have is that the default grey backdrop to everything makes it almost feel unfinished. Even a little bit of color variation to help sell the mood would make it feel like something is going on there, rather than the space around the characters just not being done.
Obviously some actual environment drawing would be great (and probably good for gags, too: the kind of housing arrangement that a bird and a dragon would share could be very interesting to explore), but any amount of texture and color variation would be very welcome.

okay, same thing I've told to a million other people on this thread: Construction drawing, construction drawing, construction drawing.


you need to be thinking in terms of 3-d shapes literally everywhere. You've got a little bit of it there, so I can see you're capable of working like this, but you need to build up such a skill in this regard that you're thinking about this sort of stuff in your sleep. It can be exhausting at first to constantly remind yourself 'three dimensional form, three dimensional form...' for every little detail, but after doing it enough, you won't even have to think about it.
Specifically stuff like the arm holding the cell phone and the hand on the far dude's hip: I can tell you reverted to thinking of them in very flat 2-d terms, so the fingers don't actually look like they're resting on anything, and the arm looks like a paper cut-out.

Additionally, you're using Pillow Shading.

All of this? It sticks out like a sore thumb. I can SEE the shape of the airbrush you're using for this effect, and you're not actually using your light source to define form, you're just kind of vaguely making the character look embossed.
Watch what happens when I take a panel from your comic, extract the lineart, and then just use the basic G-pen in Clip Studio to add some directional lighting:
From this...

to this:


Smoother, cleaner, easier to read, and actually a shitload easier than a more complicated method of shading.
Honestly, less is more when it comes to this stuff. It sounds nice to do detailed, soft, painterly effects all over your comic, but the fact of the matter is, the amount of time, effort, and attention to detail required to make those sorts of rendering techniques work is way too high to be able to reproduce them regularly and quickly enough to make a comic for most artists, especially ones without decades of experience under their belts. Make sure you're using your grey tones in such a way that they increase the clarity and readability of your comic, rather than detract from it.

First thing I noticed were your faces. You're clearly going for a style here, and I don't mind that, but you have a lot of places where it's not working.

This isn't a 'realistic skull' that I've drawn here by any means, but it's a geometric shape that is much more analogous to a real human skull.
Like I said, I know you're going for stylization, but the way you've deformed the cheekbones while leaving the chin in roughly the correct spot makes it kinda just look like his face is melting.
I think a great example for you to study would be Nichijou. It's got a similarly simplistic, cartoony art style that moves the 'point' of the cheekbones down, but does it in such a way that it feels natural and cohesive with the chin, the noses, and the eyes.


The faces are almost rectangles, with just a slight curve across the bottom for the chin, but the cheekbones being so far down don't jut out and draw attention to themselves, which is the issue I was seeing all over the place in your comic.

Again, I wanna reiterate, I'm not telling you to change your style or make your art more realistic, but as I've told so many people in this thread, you've got to know the rules before you can break them. Practicing realism and life drawing is useful for EVERY artist at ALL TIMES, even if your art is super simplified and exaggerated.

Speaking of exaggeration, you simply aren't using it enough.
For a more realistic style, you might be able to get away with more minimal movements, but one of the greatest strengths of such cartoony art is the ability to exaggerate and go over-the-top to really sell your reader on the movements.
Remember that in comics, you're working with static images that are meant to trick the reader into thinking they're actually moving, so if you draw an exact snapshot of what something in motion would look like, it's going to look very simple and flat compared to actually being able to watch the movement happen with your own eyes, which are capturing the before and after moments and putting them all together seamlessly in your head.
So when you draw a character running...


You have to REALLY draw them running. Push those action lines, have the characters lean into movements, go further than what they might look like in real life (again, KNOWING what it would look like in real life helps you do this better. Hence, knowing realism is still a good tool even for very cartoony artwork)


Same goes here: I recommend not going for the full spike-tooth mouth unless you want a character to REALLY look evil, so instead I just exaggerated the canines in her mouth to look like fangs. The mouth shape, however, can be larger, and more angular (again, knowing how different types of loud vocalizations look in real life when doing them helps this tremendously), and I added the little wrinkles under the corners of her mouth which technically probably wouldn't be there realistically, but they help sell the idea that her face is deforming in 3 dimensions, making it a lot easier to read the anger quickly and effectively.

Overall you've got some good stuff here. Nice sense of style, good use of line weight and form, decent, if simple, coloring. Generally pretty easy on the eyes.

I'mma give you the exact same critique I gave the last one, though: when your pretty anime boys look like this


but your MC looks like this:

it doesn't feel like her face is stylized, it feels like her cheekbone is melting.
it's definitely possible to have extremely simple/cartoony characters in conjunction with much more realistic ones, but that typically works with a stronger contrast, like in Bone:


In this comic, The Bone Brothers are weird blob creatures, and they exist alongside normal, exquisitely-drawn human beings, and it doesn't feel unnatural. You can definitely do this, but that cheekbone on your MC is the ONLY detail I noticed about her that's abstracted in this way, so it doesn't feel like she's a more simplistic character design in general, it feels like you just got the anatomy wrong.

I know you mentioned in another thread that you don't like drawing backgrounds, and I can see that in some places, but the real issue is, in fact, that you seem to be focused on drawing backgrounds.
Don't do that.
Backgrounds exist behind your characters. You don't want that.
You want environments, because they exist above, below, behind, beside, and in front of your characters. You've got some nice shots from the latest episode with the whole beach-and-forest setup, but there's never anything that the characters are interacting with, only standing in front of. No foreground elements, no footprints in the sand...

Why are there no blades of grass sticking up in front of their shoes here?
It's all the little details like this that really sell your comic on being a real place filled with real people, so pay attention to making your environments more fleshed out.

Thank you so much for the critique!

She's not the MC xD the bishonens are xDDDD yet you are right, I didn't have the right to melt her cheeckbone xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I wholeheartedly agree with all about the backgrounds / enviroment thing (Im avoiding drawing the footprints on purpose tho-because them have no bodies- but I did really forgot the footprints for the other people in the beach!! ;o; woah)

one of the best advices Ive received in ages. Deeply inside I was really afraid to "cover" the characters in certain panels even if I knew there was idk some folliage or a fence corner but with this advice will not be afraid anymore

THANK YOU!!!

The first thing that stuck out to me is your overreliance on 3-d models.
You're using them incredibly well in some places, I can see you doing good enough draw-overs on the city that it wasn't immediately apparent, and using them for the crowd of students was great; makes them easier to draw, but putting the uniform over each of them makes it hard to tell which is great.
However, when you're using them for the fight scenes, you're a little too beholden to them.
If I am, in fact, completely wrong about all this and you aren't using 3-d models for this stuff, then the problem remains: you're drawing as if your characters are stiff plastic action figures.


Look at that left panel. The whole point of this fight is that our MC completely outclasses this guy and he effortlessly wins the fight, yet the dude he punched doesn't look like he got hit, he looks like he got carefully lifted up. If someone gets punched in the chest hard enough to throw them into the air, the spine is going to arch in the direction of the impact. Ribcage will turn inward, and everything will be dragged along behind the part that got hit with that much force.
Additionally, regardless of how much stronger our spiky blue-hair boy is, he doesn't look like he's really throwing a punch. He's delivering an uppercut here, so he should be trying to get his weight under the dude he's punching, in order to use the whole body to lift up and add more force.
All of this works in conjunction with your composition; you want to lead the reader's eye towards the point of impact, so having the arm, leg, fist, and arch of the back all lead towards the point where the punch landed makes the action more readable and more dynamic.

Okay.
Look at this girl's hair.

You know what this hair made me think of?
Go on, take a guess.
Did you guess Hobbes?


Because that's what I thought of.


So the primary thing I did here was adjust the way those texture marks are drawn on the hair. I don't want you to get rid of them entirely, they're a great effect, but you're using them like a pattern and not like a texture.
Think about where light and shadow would fall, where the hair is going to be darker vs. lighter. Individual hairs are a pain in the ass to draw, so the vast majority of art styles simply exaggerate what happens in real life and make the hair 'clump' into larger, more solid masses with a hair-like texture drawn onto them.
The thing about textures, though, is that they are different ways that a surface reflects light. This means that textures will be visible when there are TRANSITIONS from light to dark. Thus, those texture marks shouldn't be spaced out in even perfect rows like that, they should follow the light and shadow.

Additionally, I looked at this and realized she's in the middle of a glowing golden sunset, yet her shadows are still grey and desaturated, and the hair highlights are perfect white. She's got golden-orange light ALL around her, which means that the shadows will be getting 'filled in' by that orange ambient light, making them tint more orange, and the light shining directly on her is a very golden yellow, so it's not going to reflect perfect white back at our eyes, so the highlights on her hair are tinted towards the color of the light source.




I noticed this all over your comic; the hair highlights are in these very even, repeating shapes that don't actually look like they're defining the form or volume of the hair, and they're always a perfect, stark white, which is rarely going to happen unless everyone has drenched their hair in grease or hair gel.

Which... I guess from some of these hairstyles, maybe, but then again my main character looks like this:

so, y'know, throwing stones in glass houses and all that.

Thank you very much, reading over and looking at the images this really helps. my art always felt a bit off and now I know why. I'll be working on getting some new character art and better poses to fix this. I started to let go of my realistic/ still life artwork, but it's obvious now that I need to practice that more, especially anatomy. I'll be going to school soon for art so hopefully that on top of more practice on my part can fix this. Again thank you very much for taking time to critique my work.

Once you're in art school, you should definitely check and see if your school does weekly life drawing sessions and attend as many as you can. Before Covid shutdowns, I would try to get to a life drawing session at least every other week, and it really does inform the rest of your drawing (even very stylized cartoonish drawing) in a lot of very positive ways!

Thank you I'll definitely check that out. I think my college does but I'll have to make sure and even if it doesn't I'll still try to see if I can find a class outside of college or online.

A resource that I use all the time is this: https://line-of-action.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing11
Usually I set it to 60 seconds per image, and then go as fast as I can for 15-30 minutes or until I fill a page. Your drawings don't have to be perfect, don't even have to be good. Just draw. The more you do this, the more you'll pick stuff up and it'll become part of your muscle memory. Often I'll use it before I start a pencilling session to loosen up, or to shake off the rust after not drawing for a little while.

I like a lot of what you are telling people so far. You're doing nice with the critiques. :sweat_02:

I understand, Thanks for the tip. Honestly, I'm still trying to get the hang of the whole thing. I'll try my best to improve it in chapter 4. Sadly, i had already repeated the same mistakes throughout chapter 3 so I'd have to work on it in chapter 4.
Once again, thanks so much for the correction.

I would love a critique on my sci-fi/comedy, Space Pack if you've got the time! I'm always open to critical, honest feedback, and would love to hear what you have to say. If not, no worries! Thanks in advance! :slight_smile:

11 days later

Okay, this one... this one interests me.


This right here? This feels like a punchline.
Like the art style shifts, DRASTICALLY from one panel to another. I'm referring specifically to your line quality. Most of the time your comic is drawn with these really dense, dramatic hatching marks all over the place, and it lends a serious air of liveliness and intensity. I love it. You could definitely do with a little more control in some places, but overall, it's an extremely unique look and I love it. However, you seem to switch back and forth between that and this very smooth, glossy grey shading, seemingly at random.

Like... in the example above, it goes from the greyscale shading when the character is sitting still, to all the messy sketchy hatchmarks when there's a moment of intense action. Okay, so you're giving me a visual language here: those hatchmarks indicate intense movement and action, but then in the very next moment...


This character isn't moving, they're standing perfectly still in the aftermath of that kick, but you're still using all these dense texture marks. so... those hatchmarks DON'T indicate intense movement? Alright, then that means the greyscale must have indicated something else, right?
So where's the next place we see it?

huh... this looks like it's being used as a punchline for a gag; the character is overly simplified and doing something kind of silly, so... the greyscale shading means funny gag moment?
but wait, if I scroll up a little...

This DEFINITELY isn't a comedic punchline as far as I can tell, so what gives?

My point here is that it's okay to change up your art style within a story like this, but it needs to be done with intent and purpose. You know how like... black-and-white scenes in the middle of something color kinda automatically mean 'flashback scene'? Or how watercolor textures are used to indicate dream sequences? THAT is how you should be changing your art style. Make sure your visual language is consistent, otherwise you'll end up unintentionally communicating the wrong thing to your readers.

I really do love the style of this. Like I said, the really dense, crazy, almost frenetic hatchmarks make it feel really active and lively, but they also might be eating too much of your time. It doesn't look like you're focusing very hard on the underlying structure and anatomy very well.
Like here:


You've set the horizon line in the middle of Poppu's neck, meaning we're looking up at her face and down at the rest of her body. The angle is REALLY extreme here, so it's like a fish-eye distortion, which is fine; she's obviously supposed to look kinda creepy here, so that works in your favor. However...

With perspective this extreme, EVERYTHING needs to be affected by it. You would never see the lower lids of the eyes arch down like that if you're looking up at someone; the cheekbones and general curve of the face would cause them to look squished in. Same goes for the bottom lip; you'd barely see the edge of it, while you'd be able to see the top lip in full. This is a SUPER difficult angle to draw people from, so it's going to be a challenge no matter what, but you're only making use of the twisted perspective you've got going on here in some places, making the rest of it really heavily clash with what would otherwise be a really striking composition.

There's generally a lot of issues with your anatomy as well. I recognize that your art style is very angular and abstracted, so it's not quite as big a deal as if you were going for a more realistic design, but it does have some major effects even to a style like this. If you make a neck too thick or an arm too long or a hand too big, it should be on purpose. Learning real world anatomy is useful for any and all art styles at all times, even if you're going to distort it, because you need to know HOW you're distorting it before you can do it effectively.
Definitely keep with that messy, scratchy, ballpoint-pen-lookin' shading style you've got going on, just try to be a little more consistent and intentional with it. If you get it down, I think you could have a really striking and unique visual aesthetic on your hands.

I... uh... I don't...

I've been staring at your comic for like 20 minutes trying to put together anything to say, but I feel like my brain has melted out of my ears.

Does that read as a compliment? I mean it as a compliment.

I genuinely can't say a whole lot because your style is so insanely psychedelic and abstract that it's almost a different skill set entirely from my kind of drawing.
It's obvious you're really comfortable with your style, and you've done a better job by FAR than I would have expected making the comic readable even with the flat, abstract, and candy-colored insanity you've got going on. Like legit, I wouldn't have thought it would be possible to actually make a comic this dense, loud, and busy while still making it possible to read and understand the story, but you've done a decent job.
My only caution, with regards to that, would be that you're kind of walking a razor's edge here; one slip-up and a page could go from drug-trip-nirvana to unreadable mess. I can't find any egregious issues with it yet, but there are a few points where it becomes more collage and less sequence-of-images.


Like here, I can read what's going on, but it could probably be a little clearer; when it comes to comics, even taking an extra fraction of a second to find the next text bubble, look at the next panel, or parse what is moving where can be a MAJOR detriment to a reader's immersion, so pumping up clear, easily-understood visual communication needs to be at the top of your priority list.

Like I said, you and I are almost working with completely different skill sets here, so I know I didn't do a very good job here, but this is just some really quick and rough indications of thinks I think could help clarity here; shadows being cast by characters to indicate their relation to the objects around them, slight color shifts to indicate foreground and background in a subtle way (I tinted the characters more red-magenta here, and the background more blue-green), and large black shapes to really draw attention to things. I guarantee you could do a better job of this than I could, given how far outside my wheelhouse this is, but in general, keep an eye out for places where you can use tools like this to help boost that clarity and readability.
Overall, though, absolutely stellar fucking work. I've never dropped acid before, but I feel like looking at your comic has given me a pretty good idea of what it would be like.

So long as this could help improve my comic and story telling, I'm willing to hear your critiques.

So far the prologue is done and the chapter will be coming this year,

I legit can't say a damn thing. How the hell are you not working for a publisher already? this shit straight-up blows anything I can do out of the water, and even many full-time professionals working on marvel and DC comics right now. Absolutely stellar.
I could probably give some really small little individual panel-by-panel critiques, but I highly doubt I'd be able to tell you anything you don't already know.

Also


best easter egg I've ever seen on this site. Good show.

A'ight, first off


why this comic starring Weird Al Mothafuckin' Yankovich?

Anyways


First thing I noticed, you're being real hasty with these fills and tones.

Lookit this; I just took about five seconds to go clean up all those little white bits in the hair where your paint bucket didn't catch the corners. They may be tiny, but they REALLY stand out and become distracting. I know I can't say too much, because I've had this issue in my own comic on a few occasions, but making sure there's nothing from a technical or craftsmanship standpoint to get in the way of your comic being readable is a pretty big deal, and when you have a sketchy style like this, you can't afford to sacrifice much in that department.


now, biggest issue I'm seeing overall is just some flatness and lack of construction drawing. The characters look stiff and emote in pretty bland, robotic ways. Not a good look for any comic, but in a romance story, especially, subtle body language and character acting are like the biggest of big deals.
I can tell with this panel, you just didn't look up ANY reference. Like... let's go google 'bridal carry' and see what we get...



3-4 minutes of searching, and I've got 2 really good photos for reference on hand placement and how the legs of the one being carried bend, and a really nice sketch for style and expression/body language.

So let's see if we can take what we see in these photos and use it to help us position the characters a little better, really sell the reader on this moment, ne?



Put it all together and clean it up a little, aaaand

Could definitely still use a little cleaning, but the pose feels a lot more naturalistic now.
The more you do this, the better you'll get at it, but in general, don't assume you know how to draw anything, even if you think you already do. You don't just want to 'not be afraid' of using reference, you should be EAGER to look up and understand how people do things in real life. It's not about finding an exact pose from the exact right angle and copying it either, it's about how weight shifts, which muscles are used for which actions, what overlaps what and where, all stuff you can learn just by looking at someone performing the action from nearly any angle. Keep referencing for everything, and you'll build up an internal library of sorts, of understanding how people move in order to do certain things. You've got a pretty decent foundation here, so once you get the subtler nuances of character acting down, I have no doubt you'll be able to go far with this.

Don't have a comic for you to review.

Just wanted to say how awesome and amazing what you are doing is.
I am sure everyone appreciates it!

Bravo for devoting all this time to helping people improve.

You sir are excellent!

Hahaha, thank you very much! I was honestly expecting something much harsher, I guess that's me being critical of my own work. I know some panels have issues and wonkiness, particularly in the first parts of issue 1 when I was still getting my feet under me making comics. The dialogue in issue 1 feels a little hammy at times too, a little forced. There's some drift in my lettering style in the first half of that book too--hahaha I could probably pick that first book apart all day, but I was still figuring stuff out, so I guess I can give it a pass.
You're the first person to recognize the cabbage man in that panel! Hahaha, Avatar was one of the inspirations for Heaven Hunters, so I felt it was only right I pay homage!

For the shading style, there hasn't been all that much thought behind it. Most of the style changes in episodes 6 and 7 were me kinda experimenting. I guess the softer shading is supposed to be for more light-hearted scenes, but that's not an all-the-time thing. Like in that scene with the thick line shading that isn't meant to indicate intense movement, the reason I used it there is that I thought doing it with thick lines would be faster than thin lines. And it could've worked if I spaced out my lines more and didn't make it look so harsh. The only time it works in this episode is when Rin makes an angry face and it's supposed to be an intense expression.

I felt like the difference between the shot of Rin running and the panel with Poppu stopping suddenly was the level of detail put into it. Like Poppu is shaded with a harder and simpler cell shading, while Rin is shaded with a softer and more rendered kind of shading. Maybe I should've used hatching on Rin for a more consistent tone, but I feel like the softer shading matches with her mood a little more.

Sometimes tho, I decide how I shade based on how much effort I wanna put into a panel, and it's just... lazy. And it's really obvious where I'm being lazy too because I put so much effort into most of my art.

I do probably spend way too much time on shading and not enough on making sure my anatomy is accurate. A lot of my art includes very detailed faces (not always well-drawn, just detailed) and then the rest of the body is just like "yeah, that's kinda what a body looks like"

I'm obviously still trying to figure it out, it's the first time I've tried making a comic like this. Some of these problems have kinda been fixed in the episodes I'm currently working on. Nevertheless, I'm still really proud of my small victories in all my drawings regardless of how bad I end up thinking they look. I'm always trying something different, and it really helps to have someone else put it into words so I can look out for it more. Thank you for your criticism

I always jump to the most recent pages to make sure I'm critiquing current work, so I didn't even really look at the beginning stuff. I'm also almost exclusively looking at art stuff here; there's way too many of these for me to read through the narrative of each one and get enough to sink my teeth into for a story critique. Same reason I'm not doing novels, so un-hamming your dialogue isn't something I'm gonna be able to help you with on a quick visual criticism like this.

I second that!

Thanks so much for offering your time for those super detailed reviews. I've already learned so much just by reading the responses ^^

Thanks for offering your time for this. I've been lurking and I've wanted to get to posting my first (actual) comic here so feel free to get to this whenever you have the time. This is mainly a series I'm doing just to "find my footing" if that makes sense?

Also the third chapter might be posted by the time you get to it since I'm currently working on it. Just letting you know.