INK Concerns (with MATH!)

[jensrichard77]

No changes needed. Just give proper information to the people spending and receiving money. Problem solved.

Got a point there. .

[Maps]

Isn’t that what Michael said they were going to do though?

[jensrichard77]

Yep. But that might take time. And I think it is a question about patience now.

[colinmooredraws]

But Yoon’s statement suggests otherwise

[rajillustration]

So to be clear--do you mean you want to get rid of the support system entirely, or that you want to use a different unit than ink for this system?

[Yoon]

But Yoon’s statement suggests otherwise

Hmm.. which part?

Here is some facts that I wanted to share..

The Ink purchasing page states that the $9.99 level is the most popular. So if just a 100 people purchase at that level, the amount the company keeps would be about $150 higher than expected. And I doubt it's only 100 people buying that level.

I don't think we have users who purchased $1.99 Ink package for only 100% Support as you thought. I can't share internal data publicly but I wish we could have 100 people purchase lower packages and support creators...

1. During Inksgivng, we always turn on 1:1200 Ink package to keep ink conversion rate the same because during the event there are many users who purchased ink page for Support. Tapas keeps nothing.

2. We've already prepared new sale Ink packages(1:1300, 1:1600) for Dec and 1:1300 Ink package for 2020. We didn't know about this thread when we were preparing. When a user purchases these packages and support to creators we will keep 1:1200 anyway.

3. We have Inksgiving event once or twice a year and ink back to reader. On May Spring Inksgiving we gave back 1.1 M Ink and On Dec 2019 we will give back 4.2 M Ink for Inksgiving 2019. I think if we keep $$, we don't have this event. Even if we keep money that you pointed, we give back to users more than that money anyway.

4. Many users earned Ink from our Ink Shop. When a user watches a video ad we give them 10 Ink. Our avg video AD cpm (= 1000 plays $4) is less $4 which mean, we lose 5.2 Ink (10 - (4 / 1000 * 1200)) every rewards. Why do we keep this game? Our one of visions is build the best comic community in the world.

As @michaelson said earlier, We're award of the the Ink system is not for Support system so there are some difficulties to make all sense. And Tapas has been trying hard to keep our community. We keep running/building community using this.

They've received over $15 Million in investments.

15M for 8 years = per year 1.8 M = per month 150K. and every month we pay 20K for server hosting.. + office rent + etc..
100K for 20~30 people is not enough..

Tapas needs to make money but we don't make money to make a hidden fees and from community. We invest/donate money/efforts to keep building/running Tapas community. We don't use our community for our business. Instead we try to live together.

Please also try to understand what Tapas has been trying/doing for community. Not just pointing out a bad thing and emphasize. I'm pretty sure we've listened our community whenever they say something. We're not evil...

We will ship it soon.

To clarify this process, we’ll be adding additional language on the creator dashboard and help center to outline what the exchange rates are (this is due to ship soon).

Thank you,

[Yoon]

-do you mean you want to get rid of the support system entirely

No.

that you want to use a different unit than ink for this system?

I think so but nothing decide yet. When we revamp current support program, we will focus on having the same value of Ink like what we had before (2014~2015).

Sorry for making you confused.

[jensrichard77]

Now that was some serious answering.
I believe there is a great future to come in Tapas.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Thanks from the extra info;

I'd just like to point out that for me (and from what I understood, several persons on this thread), the issue is not so much the % of the fee taken by Tapas, but rather the fact it's impossible to know what the fee is when we buy.
I'd say, personally, I don't really care that much for the promotions and ink given back, if I don't know what I bought to begin with.

I'm a business owner with an unstable customer base. I know the importance of a solid income that allows to look ahead.
I'd simply like to know how much I support Tapas and how much I support creators (directly) when I buy ink.

[Yoon]

I'd simply like to know how much I support Tapas and how much I support creators (directly) when I buy ink.

Me too. But we can't explain everything to Ink purchasers when they buy Ink. Ink was not designed for Support program but readers buy for both unlock content and support. So I think if there are new options for only Support, it would remove this issue? Right? Readers can still buy/earn Ink but if readers only want to support they can use the new options. the value is same. Support $N -> take some fees -> revenue $(N - fees) and readers can find this information somewhere or when they support.

[Yoon]

Now that was some serious answering.

hahahaha it's not.. sorry if you feel that way.. I felt bad because I designed this system so want to fix the problem and there was any bad intended this issue because there was no support option when I designed it.

I believe there is a great future to come in Tapas

Thank you for saying this.. I'll try my best!

[ratique]

So I think if there are new options for only Support, it would remove this issue?

Do you think a second system would be able to simplify everything? I suspect if you guys would be able to find a solution that is easily explained and has a straight forward payout structure, there would be little left in terms of confusion.

Thanks for all these answers, Yoon. It may not feel that way when you spend time here on the forums, but most of us appreciate what you guys do lol

[jensrichard77]

I designed this system so want to fix the problem

That was what I read in all of your answerings. That’s so real and you are not hiding.
This is a community and we live here, for better and for worse.

We support
We cheer
We fail
We help

[Rosso]

your transparency is greatly appreciated.
and if i'm being honest, what you said worries me greatly...

Why do we keep this game? Our one of visions is build the best comic community in the world.

anyone remembers Inkblazers?

Inkblazers

Inkblazers shut down on February 1, 2015 as the creators could no longer financially support the continuation of the site

while it is very generous of you to give a lot to the community even if at a loss on your end, i really hope you guys have future-proof plans from keeping this ship from sinking.
I wasn't into comics when Inkblazers was around, but i rememer so many creators where hit greatly by the loss of this platform. Maybe allow creators to purchase ad spaces (that shuffles so everyone can get a fair chance) and this way, you can make some profit and both parties are happy?

anyway i digress.
thanks once again and wishing you guys the best.

[jensrichard77]

You know. I’m into Ko-Fi and I’m fine with Paying 6$ months For special features.

Why can’t I pay 6$ to Tapas for having my own locked space where readers can pay to see my ekstra stuff?

The marked is there. Just pick it up.

[colinmooredraws]

Do you think a second system would be able to simplify everything? I suspect if you guys would be able to find a solution that is easily explained and has a straight forward payout structure, there would be little left in terms of confusion.

This is exactly my question. There are many ways of fixing the system that would simplify it on both ends. It really is needlessly complicated on both ends. And it doesn't help the fact that there is no clarity of even the basics in the TOS or anywhere. Not even the simple statement of once it's in a creator's hand it's a 1:1200 ratio.

@Yoon This is a matter of transparency and clarity to users on the basics of the system.

But if you want to actually change the system, completely dropping the gamified pricing structure would be of great benefit to users and creators alike. Like was mentioned above, Twitch is a great example. When buying bits, the fee is applied at purchase and everyone knows that giving 100 bits is giving $1. A clear and easy to understand system. One that allows users to know how much they really are giving.

My concerns here are two fold. The first is that the system is needlessly complicated to the point that from the outside it looks intentional. The second is that it took this much effort just to get anything close to a straight answer. It wasn't until I put money into the system and provided proof that anyone budged on just repeating the vague things already in the TOS and "what-ifs" based on fees and the like.

If you genuinely cared about your users and their experience, you would consider a more streamlined system. Holding to the current pricing structure means you're okay with obfuscating details from your users and leading supporters into thinking they're giving more than they really are.

[Larslaustsen]

Why can’t I pay 6$ to Tapas for having my own locked space where readers can pay to see my ekstra stuff?

That I will do too, it is a great idea

[colinmooredraws]

You know. I’m into Ko-Fi and I’m fine with Paying 6$ months For special features.

Why can’t I pay 6$ to Tapas for having my own locked space where readers can pay to see my ekstra stuff?

Ko-Fi really is the best alternative. They don't take a single fee from the transactions (and only paypal fees are removed), and that paltry $6/mo gets you so many awesome features. AND the ability to give once or subscribe monthly. Plus their website is just nice.

It makes me so happy that they're getting more popular.

[michaelson]

I wasn't into comics when Inkblazers was around, but i rememer so many creators where hit greatly by the loss of this platform. Maybe allow creators to purchase ad spaces (that shuffles so everyone can get a fair chance) and this way, you can make some profit and both parties are happy?

Our goal is to creates sustainable ways to generate revenue for both the platform and the creators. Right now, we have a number of different monetization mechanisms in place that help us pave the way towards sustainability and profitability. I don't really see a scenario where I would be comfortable selling ad space on the platform to creators, as I also don't see this as a sustainable form of revenue that can grow. Plus it feels kind of wrong.

Why can’t I pay 6$ to Tapas for having my own locked space where readers can pay to see my ekstra stuff?

I wish it were as simple as that - features such as that are quite robust and difficult to build. For us to build a monetization tool for creators we would need to replicate it for web, iOS, Android, and likely mobile web so that there is parity across platforms. This is a tall order for many things, but we hope to create more revenue generating tools for creators that we can scale out. Those are currently in the works and we hope to announce them down the road.

Ko-Fi really is the best alternative. They don't take a single fee from the transactions (and only paypal fees are removed), and that paltry $6/mo gets you so many awesome features. AND the ability to give once or subscribe monthly. Plus their website is just nice.

Agree, and recommend creators explore every option possible - whether it's a Ko-Fi, Support Program, Patreon, PayPal donations, etc.

---

As for the rest of the talking points, we are still in the process of looking at short term and long term solutions to the questions and concerns brought up in this topic.

For the short term we will be deploying messaging around the creator dashboard and revenue dashboard about the transaction and exchange rates that are applied. For the long term, we hope to disclose more information when we come to a conclusion internally and feel confident enough to announce and move forward with.

[jensrichard77]

Wow @michaelson
That was just wow.