Sep 2020
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Sep 2020
Sep 2020
NickRowler
Sep '20
1
liamhernandezlucas

Advocating restrictions to transgender healthcare is a form of transphobia. While some minors might be OK just talking to a therapist, others aren’t. And for trans youth in the second group, they are at higher risk of suicide. And if their parents take advice from people like JK Rowling, these teens may also fall victim to abuse and homelessness.

Her mindset and her new book could also encourage her supporters to seek out transwomen and male crossdresser To attack and kill in an act to “protect women”. Most of these victims tend to be low income and POCs and are often ignored by police. I heard of one guy who got away with murdering a black transwoman in the middle of the day on a crosswalk.

But_a_Jape
Sep '20
HGohwell

I was in the middle of writing almost exactly what you wrote, but I scrapped it when I saw I'd just be redundant.

I would like to add onto your "reasonableness" point in that, just because someone can explain their views in a polite and reasonable manner does not automatically mean there's more legitimacy to their arguments. People see Rowling's essay on her views and think "well, that all looks reasonable, I can see how this was all just a big misunderstanding" but they either ignore, or are not well-versed enough on trans issues to notice, the falsehoods and inaccuracies she's spreading. Very intelligent people have always been able to politely and "rationally" explain all sorts of horrible ideas and if their opponents standing up for human decency end up shouting or getting angry, the audience thinks "Well, that's uncalled for. They probably don't have a good reason for their side if they can't be emotionless about it."

I try to be polite and reasonable whenever I discuss things, only because I'm aware of this tendency in people - but I also try not to completely shut out people's arguments when they're less in control of their emotions and yell or use strong language. Sometimes people have good reason to be angry and frustrated, they still need to be listened to.

It's why I kind of get annoyed when I see debates between two ardently opposed sides that end with "Well, I disagree with you, but I commend you for your ability to be calmly express your ideas. We may be on different sides but there's no reason we can't be civil." Meanwhile the debate was over the legitimacy of ethnic cleansing.

Iris-Grimoire
Sep '20

Also, an extra point to the dangerous mindset she's trying to spread with this - that gender reassignment surgery is this easy thing, almost like having a pill, that people can do to change before you even know it. It's already bad in most countries even if they've got laws for it, but it's notorious in the UK how long it actually takes to get surgery - if she keeps pushing that it's super easy(using a tale that dangerous people just do it whenever) and people start asking for bigger restrictions, it's only going to take longer and longer to get the appointments trans people really need.

HGohwell
Sep '20

This is very true. I understand that up until quite recently (I'm not even sure if it has changed yet given how long our politics takes to do anything) you had to live as the gender you would like to transition to for a certain number of years and go through several doctors, including psychologist/physiatrists before you would even be considered for most medical options, or be allowed to put in paperwork for a court to consider you legally transitioned for passports and driver licenses ect. It's not a snap decision like she makes it sound.

DukeOfOool
Sep '20

I'm just here plopping by, I've listened to the video previously posted and read the articels posted, and I have to say THANK you all for such an orderly discussion, bringing forth an understandable point. I really enjoyed widening my horizon regarding about many things.

...
I have a question not regarding JKR, but trans in general. Should I ask it here directly or create a new thread?

HGohwell
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

Here's the problem: literally no one is saying X and Y chromosomes and DNA isn't a thing. JK hides behind "I'm just saying biological sex is real" to get away with saying awful harmful things, and we've already covered her outright lies.

What she's really saying is "sure I support transpeople, I just think that they're out of attack women in women's bathrooms and that they're attention seekers or trying to get away from homophobia or sexism by changing gender and it's all medical and social media brainwashing really, but I support them, I dont want them dead, I just don't want them in my spaces or near my kids or anything like that, but I support them".

KRWright
Sep '20
DukeOfOool

I'd say it would be most relevant here rather than in a new place for now.

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

Sure, regular people can have all sorts of opinions and it's no big deal. But we have to hold public figures (and other people of influence) to a higher standard because the potential to cause harm is greater. What's reasonable behavior for you or me, among close friends, is not reasonable behavior for someone with the eyes of the world upon them.

KRWright
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

This is not how the world works though, and the larger your influencer, the more likely you are able to change things. Even a minute shift in a small percentage of the people she can reach, and that's a lot of people who could be persuaded into anti-trans views.

HGohwell
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

This is a rather naïve idea though. JK has the entire population of some countries following her. She's on TV. She gets news coverage. When she says something like "someone lost their job for saying sex is real" it goes out to millions. It only takes her a few seconds to say that and for millions of people hear it. And then way more effort to debunk it as lies. You can say she shouldn't be important all you like, but what she says has reach, and possibly most worryingly, a lot of reach with younger audiences and kids.

scribesunlimited
Sep '20
KRWright

Sadly, very true. But it's not gonna discourage me from enjoying her work. :slight_smile: And remember something. Just because someone famous says something, doesn't mean we have to agree with it, either. In the end, the anti-trans viewpoint is entirely up to the person on the other side of the message. NO ONE forces us to accept or agree with what some famous author says. :slight_smile: That's up to our common senses. Or should I say "uncommon sense" because I rarely see common sense in the world today.

IntoTheTempest
Sep '20

You can't say you support trans people and give your money to a transphobe/and support transphobic media.

HGohwell
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

I really do hope you mean the HP books which are only vaguely problematic and not the new books this very thread has pointed out several times are actually transphobic in their content.

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

Maybe they didn't want to have this kind of influence. Maybe what they do, doesn't really make them fit to wield that influence. But the fact is that they do have this platform, this power, and if we don't do damage control, who will?

We live in a world where a Playboy bunny became the face of the antivaxx movement.

Dane_Sherbet
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

We're merely accusing you of acting the way you've been acting in this thread.

EDIT: When we challenge your opinions, that doesn't mean we're attacking you as a person. We are simply dealing with your statements the way adults do.

KRWright
Sep '20
scribesunlimited

That isn't what happened here at all. There are lots of posts in this thread that counteract the points you wrote and I suggest that you do read them. Perhaps I should have made the general you clearer in my second sentence of that post though and for that I apologise.

scribesunlimited
Sep '20

No offense, but I'm staying out of it.

domisotto
Sep '20

To counter her new book with yet another nefarious or comic cross-dresser I would like to instead read a book with a high-achieving trans-woman main whose accomplishments came after they have transitioned. Can someone suggest something like that? I so far read three books with trans mains, and I haven't seen one like that. Preferably adventure/fantasy.