Oct 2019
42 / 52
Oct 2019
Oct 2019
LCT_m_a_d
Oct '19

There is a place for subfarmers I think. When I think about how uncomfortable it feels to get and see those requests, it also reminds me that theres a need for me to do things the way I'm doing it.

I take pride in believing my comic isn't about building a business or chasing subscriber quota. Its about creating art, and contributing to the community.

I feel like the way art culture is headed is creating an opportunity for me to make content that people dont realize they want, but really long for.

Jenny-Toons
Oct '19

I agree with this so much.

Even better, we literally have threads in the forums or on reddit pages catered to this type of stuff. Why would you go creator to creator, clogging up their walls and pms with sub4sub, when you can post once to these specific pages and not be a bother??

"Well, you can just delete it" -- or maybe, you can use Google or a search engine to find out where you can do WANTED sub4sub.

I shouldn't have to keep going into my PMs and keep deleting these requests from people who are clearly not going to read my work. A lot of us aren't featured -- so when we get a notification thinking it's from a reader, but it's just sub4sub -- how do you think that makes people feel? Kinda annoyed.

As others are saying, don't waste time on them. If they can't take the time to Google and ask around, that's on them. Not everyone else.

sarrowsmith10
Oct '19
Anthien

you have a point there. :joy:

point taken.

This I would not mind since it wouldn't be a stranger.

This has only happened to me once and I deleted the comment.

This.

If they are just using me for their own benefit with no regard for my feelings, then they aren't the type of creator I want to interact with anyways. That sort of defeats the purpose of meaningful networking.

I find that being genuine in my interactions with the community has resulted in more financial and personal success than chasing subs and irritating people.

Agreed! I actually missed a PM from Smackjeeves saying they wanted to feature me and I needed to upload a cover image. By the time I shifted through all the other PM junk, it was too late, the time frame for the opportunity was gone.

I think there are arguments for this going both ways, personally I don't mind doing a sub for sub when I come across it in the forums, as long as the other person actually subs back. In your message, it wasn't a sub-for-sub and you didn't follow my comic.

Secondly, I know you make the argument that even if you piss off a couple of people, as long as some of them subscribe its a win for you. But is it really? Pissing off people hurts your reputation (which is usually pretty hard to build). If you had come to me politely, asking me for specific feedback, maybe subbed my comic, it would have been a wonderful networking opportunity. I could have given you comments, subbed and been active on your comic, which boosts your stats. I've definitely done this with other creators, and when paying jobs came up I often refer those jobs to people I've been interacting with. That's how networking helps you. When you get blocked or ignored for soliciting, you have an opportunity lost cost. I guess its up to you to decide if the benefit out weighs the cost.

BlueWorldComics
Oct '19

My personal experience with these kinda websites is you just gotta do your own thing. Ignore (or block, or tell off, dealer's choice) anyone asking from you unless you feel like it.

burginlewis
Oct '19

One of the first things that happened to me when I started uploading chapters of my novel on here a few weeks ago was that @CarltonIsaac reached out to me. I have since subscribed to one of his novels... and I'm really enjoying it :+1:. I'm glad he did that. It made me feel welcome as a new person. Some of the novels I see on here are definitely not my thing, I can tell by the description, but why is it any more rude for someone to reach out for subs than for McDonald's to sell a new salad?

sarrowsmith10
Oct '19

I'm glad you found it to your liking. The tactic of folks sending PMs for subs is clearly working at least a little bit. I never disputed that. However, McDonalds also doesn't come to my house, knock on my door and shove a salad in my face? They don't give me phone calls either. I might get an email, but that's because I subscribed in the first place.

It's totally OK if you didn't find it rude and you like @CarltonIsaac 's work. I'd also like to remind the thread that my OP was not about Carlton specifically, and it was nice of him to chime in and give his perspective on the tactic.

silacinnamon
Oct '19
burginlewis

It's a valid marketing strategy, but not everyone is going to like it, just like not everyone likes having ads forced on youtube videos.

It's totally fine if you want to do it, but like someone else said, it bothers less people if you look for forums, reddits, etc where you can find other people who explicitly want to trade subs. I think it should even give a better percentage of subs per subs, or subs per message.

vothnthorvaldson
Oct '19

I ignore these. I don't get many, but imo already too many in comparison to the size of my comic.
Depending on how personalized and nice the message is, I may simply ignore the message and do like nothing ever happened, or completely ignore the author in the future, especially if I feel any entitlement in them. No one is entitled to a sub/like/comment from me, as I'm not entitled to received any from anyone.

I don't mind support for support if it comes naturally and if both creators are happy with the deal; however in my case it never came through subscription begging. It's either from the forum or because one of us read the other's comic and the other reciprocated.
I actually love this kind of deal because it made me discover great comics I would most likely not have read otherwise because not my favourite style/genre etc. So these may start as support for support but then become way more that that.

machimaquiaveli
Oct '19

I ignore them, I don't like sub4sub bc I feel they are empty and offers nothing in return, just a number which in the long run means little to nothing. I preffer people to read my stuff bc they found it interesting.

Sometimes I feel tempted though, bc I have like five subscribers but I understands this takes time. There are hundreds of better writters than me that sttrugles as well even after have published six books so I know this is not an overnight thing. Even big names like Stephen King and J.K:Rowling sttrugled a lot back in the day. King almost quit writting and Rowling was rejected eight times by eight different publishing houses, the last one did it mostly out of pity. So I know there is hope even if I'm not as good as them.

Jenna Moreci professional author and authortuber warns against this kind of "Marketing" and iWriterly, profesional editor and authortuber does too. Reaching people out of the blue is rude in best cases, if you think it works for you congratulations but that doesn't make it less rude.Netiquette is a real thing even if too many people decides to ignore it.

Instead you could try good practices like work hard building your online media presence. Promote yourself in social media; create an authorblog; ask for reviews/critique; particpiating in contest like Pitch wars or Nanowrimo; offer yourself to review/help other writers; ask real life friends for help, there are tons of better options to choose from.

machimaquiaveli
Oct '19
vothnthorvaldson

That's the point, IF it comes naturally is great to help a fellow writter but most part of the times not only is not natural but also its people that is not looking for an honest review, just the like.

Anthien
Oct '19
vothnthorvaldson

Yeah, I think support for support relationships are great. I've read so many stories to where hardly anything will really peak my interests. These days if I'm more invested in the author... it'll get me more invested in their story to where I otherwise wouldn't be as much. Especially if they support back. I like the idea of learning from each other and having those connections. Of course everything is optional in the end and people can come and go as they please for whatever reason they want.

The more connection I feel with them, the more likely I'll stay subbed to them personally. If they didn't reach out or anything after I subbed to them, then my only motive for staying sub is cause I liked their story. Then I won't feel as guilty if I lose interest and unsub later on lol. Basically, if you show that you care, I will too. :grin:

IndigoShirtProd
Oct '19

I personally don't like it; I think it's shallow. If you do it, fine, but don't be surprised or confused when others see it as rude or intrusive. It's happened to me once before and I considered the other person's intentions. I went to look at their work, didn't like it, and chose to ignore them. Their name has come up in a discussion similar to this before and all the people who have received a message from them didn't seem to think as highly of them anymore. I find irritating as it seems like the sub for sub requests come before the person requesting looks at the other person's work. I don't think it's good practice and I think it has a high chance of having abysmal results. I'd rather let my art and writing speak for itself. Though, that is just me.

vothnthorvaldson
Oct '19
machimaquiaveli

The thing I could advise is to put a link to your comic in your forum profile. I would check it, but I have no idea how to find it!
That's for everyone, though! There are still people I speak to regularly, but don't know what they work on because there is nothing (or broken links) in profile. I'm sure I'm not the only one to check these :slight_smile:

TenguHarley
Oct '19

I've gotten a couple so far this year from peeps asking sub4sub which is weird and somewhat annoying but that's only if they get very persistent. at most a good way is to ignore.

truthfully, I do check out their comic out of curiosity and read to see if its something I would like to sub. though if not, sorry. Just not my cup of tea -s h r u g- like share it to an existing forum thread that's sharing other webcomics that may catch someone's eye...? don't be some weird bot, spammin every reader/webcomic artist you can find by dropping a copy paste DM..?

yansusu
Oct '19
vothnthorvaldson

You definitely aren't the only one who does that! I often see people talk about their works and think 'Oh, wow, this sounds like something I'd totally read!', then I'm a bit disappointed they didn't link to the work in that thread until I finally remember there's such a thing as profiles :sweat_smile: Thankfully, lots of people already have the links in there so I can go and check it out.

lorphis
Oct '19

I never experience this but I'll probably ignore them. I mean, I won't be mad. They're only doing this because they're desperate. It's sad. Now, if there's a person who repeatedly ask me to subscribe then I'll get annoyed and I'll respond.

K-Rexo_Deactivated
Oct '19

When I first started just recently, I thought moving my thread from categories two times would get me more attention. Then I realized I was doing something wrong, was getting too impatient with getting more views, and confusing the Tapas forum board. So, I decided to leave my thread just the way it is after moving it again to the "Intro" category, pull a James Rolfe from Cinemassarce and only let users decide to discover and subscribe to my work[s].

Buurd
Oct '19
CarltonIsaac
  • While I haven't sought out sub4sub I use to participate in them on other writing platforms. Yeah I got a follow, maybe a like on a few updates, and a comment or two. But quickly after a day or so their effort/activity was gone because they can't keep up with all the sub4subs they're doing, or they just don't care. I've seen it discussed here on the forums a number of times, and another experience popped up below

If the people you're participating in sub4sub are being active, congrats! That's honestly awesome, I'm just discussing the concept as a whole since I think 90% of the time it doesn't work well and isn't the best for one's reputation overall.

  • And what I'm trying to say is that even if you unlock ad rev, it won't matter if you don't have active views because you won't be making money. I see the point in aiming to unlock tipping however, but tbh I think tapas should have that feature be integrated without reaching a milestone in the first place.

  • My view isn't solely directed at you and your work, so no I'm not assuming your work won't attract genuine readers. I mean it as anyone who is or is considering doing sub4sub. And to quote myself here

And this is just an observation from my past experience and those I've seen discussed here on the forums previously. So yes, you can gain a genuine audience, but the way I see it
1. First you may damage your online reputation and burn bridges.
2. Then out of those you DO gain and see as a success, only time will tell how any are sincere/long term.
Overall it's just not worth it to me. Time spent messaging the masses and keeping up with a ton of sub4subs could be spent doing those other networking things I mentioned earlier, without any risk.

Again, I feel the need to say my use of "You" in my last points is directed to the practice in general and not the literal YOU. If this method is working for you, and you're happy then that's great. I'm just here to discuss.

I feel I've stated my main opinions/observations on this though, and since it isn't directly on topic I probably won't be responding further on this thread.
To answer the original question though: I ignore/delete them. If they're rude and I'm grumpy I might block them. It definitely bums me out to receive a notification finally, only to discover it's a sub4sub though.

kimketli
Oct '19

Never got this type of messages :smiley: I guess I'm not this popular.