The “Create For Yourself” Fallacy

I do agree with you, particularly I just want to have discussions with people haha. I like to draw my characters and posts stories it makes me happy when people want discuss and make theories or analyses of my work. I personally think it's cool. I create the stories for myself but it does feel kind of lonely when there's no one around to discuss my work with and no one who'll give a reaction. I guess it's just that I really like to discuss and analyze literary works with others a lot so I always want someone who I can discuss at length with my own stories.

And another reason I want attention for my work is because I want it to have a monetary outlet XD, which I feel like if someone told me to draw for myself in that case I'd smack them upside the head. I enjoy doing this and that's why I want to make money from this. I know some people are fine keeping it as a hobby but for me, I want to have more time to myself doing the things I love instead of having it taken away by a day job, and the only way for that to happen is if I could use the things I love to keep myself afloat.

I find the people who dismissively say "create for yourself" come from a place where they made what they wanted and it worked out perfectly, so they just assume everyone else will be just as successful. Like those youtube stars who are like "ya I'm 19 and a millionaire, so can you!" and it's like no dummy, you're 19 and you have no freakin idea how you're viral and neither do we.

And then I'll also hear artists say "Create for yourself" who are like "I took a year off of art and I started making what I want, which is this * insert wildly popular fanart-y thing here *, and then weirdly I got all these followers! Can you believe it?" and it's like...no duh honey.

I find that the internet can't seem to figure out when I want advice and when I want someone to just share with my misery, so I tend not to post my misery anymore because the way the internet is set up is just...an advice machine. Even if people don't have advice really, and so they pull for the only thing they can think of which is sometimes "have you tried creating for yourself?" and it's like effffffff.

I agree a lot with the OP. And i seen a lot of that here and in other communities.

I don't create for myself. The entire story is already on my head, with far better mental graphics that anything my awful skills could come with. I create to share/make a living. The version in my head is far superior than the version i can make.

I know art is more seen as "entertainment/culture", so maybe it doesn't have the same value you will give to a doctor, lawyer, engineer or whatever, but people don't expect those professionals to work for free, but DO expect that from artists.

"Are you accepting FREE commisions? i want you to draw my OC's" and such. Never someone will ask "are you accepting FREE medical exams/defend me in court/build a house"?

I'm a bit lost on the conversation right now...

As for my own frustration for a lack of response, I just move on and make something else and hopefully that one will be noticed. By doing so, I've seen ups and downs and seen what flopped and what didn't. I don't like one flop bother me and just keep going.

This strategy works for me because I make so many things and not just one big project.

This is why having other artist friends is so important. When I post something on social media, usually I'll only get a few likes from some close friends.

And you what? Those three likes feel really dang good, and can make me feel better about throwing art up into the void of the internet, because my friends liked it.

I do feel like it's sometimes hard to differentiate between someone who's saying "my work gets zero response, and this makes me feel discouraged from posting more art" and "my work isn't getting the response I feel it deserves".
Very different problem, there.

Creating for yourself means having an audience of yourself.

It's entirely possible to create for yourself. But once you begin showing your work to others, you can never go back to that. That's how it was in my case, at least. Solution: don't show your work to anyone ever :"")

For many years, I was writing and drawing only for myself, never showing my work to anyone (I didn't exactly have friends and preferred my family to not see it because reasons). I was completely satisfied with it - I created to please myself only. But once I began thinking of posting my art online, and started actually doing it... oooh boy.

I started looking at my art in terms of "what could make people like it? what's the appeal of it?" I concluded that there was no appeal to my art, and that if it wasn't my work, but someone else's and I saw it online, I would've ignored it completely. It was good enough for something I created - but apparently, since it was ignored, it was not good enough for others.

For a while, this has pushed me to improve my art, but in a long run proved completely destructive and led to perpetual artblock. I'm an extremely unpopular artist, I consider it a success if I get 5 likes on anything. And yet, I still feel like I have to make good art, so people will see it and like it, so I can finally become known. When I take time off posting art, I feel guilty because how can I become known if I post once every 3 months? It's all so tiring honestly.

I'm in the zone where I still largely, create work for myself to a certain extent. Sure I create comics & stuff, but I dont go around regularly polling my audiences & people to see what they want- the comics I create, I pretty much already have charted and they will end the way I want it to end...and then I'll move on to the next project that I want to do.

Even when doing standalone pieces/projects- it's pretty much me creating what I want. Sometimes I may get some insight on a few things(like color) but for the most part, I already have it figured out. I'm grateful that I do have people that like my stuff...I dont think I'll ever get away from the "creating for myself" unless I start doing commissions.

I 10000% relate to the mindset of CREATING for the self, but SHARING for externally oriented reasons. I make my comic for myself. It is very much tailored to what I want to read. But I post it for positive responses. And posting gives me so much stress, that some days I'm seriously tempted to just make my comic in secret without ever posting another page.

This is a very personal thing, and obviously different people feel differently. But that's how I feel about it. Separate motivations for making vs sharing.

my thought is........"why not both?"

i create for myself AND others.

I create stories i love and share them with people and i enjoy when they enjoy it.

Not going to read the thread because I don't feel like it.

I half agree, but it depends on the person. As someone who's had their drawings ignored by friends and family when trying to show it off, and someone who's assignments have been ignored by teachers (I was in a shit school, but I was also a brat) as a child, I can empathize with the frustration. Although as I've grown up I've learned that no one owes you their time, just like no one has a right to your time. Getting ignored for your hard work is just another facet of life, throwing a fit will only push people away more or get you a bad rep.
Not saying anyone here is throwing a fit, I'm just saying as a general analysis thing.

Personally I don't post for attention, just to archive my work, if I'm going to make something I may as well immortalize it on the internet. People can follow if they want, but attention isn't my intention, it's a bonus feature. Feedback is like a surprise present, full on detailed reviews is like when I forget it's my birthday and I walk into my surprise birthday party.
Although my mindset doesn't reflect everyone's, many people do post their work to show it off or to get feedback, and get disheartened with their efforts go unnoticed. Ain't nothing wrong with that, everyone is different.

As for the "create for yourself" thing, I guess it could interpreted differently depending on your outlook, like the "glass half full vs. glass half empty" thing. Also it depends on what it's in response to. If I'm trying to do emergency commissions because I'm about to be homeless and lose my pets to animal control, and I get that in response, it is super insulting. Of course no one is obligated to support me, but low-key telling me to stop trying to survive is unnecessary and rude.
If it's in response to me being ignored when posting something, I won't be mad because I don't feel I have the right to be as someone asking for another person's time.
This is just how I would respond, though! Not telling anyone how to feel, or what to do.

i have watched and read a lot of varying kinds of media so i know what i like. what i want is to write i story i would enjoy and be passionate about so that i can tell the kind of story that would mean a lot to me to someone else. its why i only write a bare bones outline with key story beats and character arcs and just rp out the rest like i'm playing a solo game of dnd. rule of cool is king but not at the expense of believably. i have to set up my cool moments not just whip it out like a drunken frat boy

Weeeeeell, I have not looked at my subscriber or views stats in months. My projects were not made with the intention of building auidences. I wanted to contribute the library of free-to-use content available to other writers, and that is what I did. Honestly, there was a period of being somewhat grumpy about a lack of readership, but I got over that. I kept reminding myself of my specific original goal, and I outgrew the emotional need for a digital audience. Now, I appreciate that every eyeball on my page is one less eyeball on the pages of fellow community members; attention is a finite resource that I simply do not need. I also stopped using Facebook altogether around the same time, and that helped.

I believe this to be true for me. It's pretty straight-forward. I mean, I do create a lot for myself, but if I share it then I do want a response of some kind.
Though, I am somewhat ok with not getting much of response after sharing. It's annoying and can let me down a bit for a while, but even if I did get nothing by sharing, I did get something by creating, and most of the time that something is enough to keep me happy. Which means that... ultimately, I do create for myself, and anything else is a nice bonus. And I care little about what others may think about that.

I have a lot of art that I keep for myself. When I cook or come up with new recipes I don’t post them online, when I do make up for costumes or otherwise, I don’t post that online. When I draw on physical paper, I usually don’t share those or half the things I draw on my Zen board. I don’t share my crochet projects online.

But I do share my digital art and comic online, because I want others to enjoy it, and it’s nice to get feedback so you know people are enjoying it. Since most webcomic artist aren’t paid and it takes a large amount of effort to keep such a large project going while also working full time, a little attention is not to much to ask for.
Sadly art and artist are undervalued today. There is no shame in asking for a “payoff” be it attention or money. Anyone’s time is valuable, even if you enjoy what you do, you deserve payment in some form.

I think you meant- you have a right to ASK for attention.
And if your work is worthy enough, there should be an expectation of (positive?) feedback from those that have come across it. If that's what you meant, then - that sounds reasonable.

If it reads the way it's written, then the word deserve needs explaining.
And I would ask an open question, why does anyone deserve anything- in regards to art?

Warning: This is all stuff artists hate to hear.
Art is created by an artist. By ART, I mean the dictionary definition of art.
An artist is 3 things. Or, you can argue, 3 things are needed to be an artist.

1) (Enough) technical skill so the idea of limitations is removed from your work.
2) A keen judgement (or eye [it's called 'an ear' in music] or taste)
3) The ability to work = or great desire to create.

Art at its highest level is purely generated from those three things.
When someone suggests you create art for yourself, they mean stick to those three things.
To deviate is to bring in OUTSIDE CONCERNS and that usually dilutes your art.

The focus on being a successful artist leads to seeking glory and reward.
And in many cases compromises those 3 in an attempt to achieve greater exposure or acceptance.

Thinking about dumb-ing it down to be more popular? (kills #1)
Thinking about doing what everyone else is doing or what is popular (kills #2)
Comparing yourself to someone else and their greater success (kills #3)

I did a video or two about this kind of stuff.

There's a lot of downsides to social media and forums, as a whole, but that's another story for another day.

Artists create art; Van Gogh hardly sold a painting while alive. Lucky artists get paid for their work. Peace.

I could certainly live happily without being Van Gogh.

Not true at all. You should EXPECT, you should 'count on' you should be planning for....deserve....never....
And the word you want is COMPENSATED, not paid.
It's a hard concept to explain, but the idea is that ....
You get paid to do art. As opposed to ' you do art and THEN look to get paid for it/ from it.
That twist makes all the difference.

No assumptions, let's look at the OP then. They said:

I share it one my social media.

(no one owes you attention in any way shape or form.) Many of you (sorry to level this rude charge) think your ART is ABOVE any reader or viewer. You are a servant to them, your arts' [partial value] is determined by THEM, not you. You LOVE IT, buy THEY give it value. It's valuable to YOU, but it's value is decided by those who judge it or use it.

We've all looked at work from other popular artists and wondered why they get hundred of notes and we're getting none, right?

That is aspect #3 being broken. Which has almost NOTHING to do with your art. That is the heart-breaker! Hobbyist artists believe that MORE and BETTER art is the way to gain greater success. It is not. Take the test yourself. If you can name one thing that is successful and 'popular' but you (and your peoples) think it's trash, then #2 (your judgement) does NOT decide the value of that art. If you can name something that you LOVE, but it got mass attention and then passes over (A flop) then again, your judgement does not determine value. If you find a "great" piece of art in the world and no one is paying attention to it - then just making 'great art' is not a guarantee for exposure or mass feedback...or payment.

But when I get frustrated by the lack of
And that's where they should be -- frustrated- they deserve to be frustrated and that's about it.

Frustration is a FEELING. That is why they were getting advice about their FEELINGS.
Do art for art's sake or do art for the love - is how you counter that EMOTION.
Go back to the 1, 2 and 3 - points that I dropped.

Now, if you want to talk about PRO level- thinking we can do that, but THAT has nothing to do with this.
And has, almost nothing in common with this thread so far.
Even though you somehow compared having a degree and searching for work being close to doing art and deserving attention and support.

"Of course I am assume that the artist in theory did indeed go to school, and is attempting to make a profession of their craft, and is taking it seriously, and it’s not just a hobby for them."

This disclaimer doesn't get around that feeling or point of view. You are now assuming someone in that position STILL thinks like a hobbyist. To turn your hobby into a business or career or even any kind of money-making enterprise requires a massive mind-set change. Most can't or won't do it.

Understanding this video is an early step towards that.

I'll go further, but I already know this is forbidden talk. lol
Let me know.

Ah, but in today’s world social media has become a part of being a “professional” artist.
Unfortunately, that is also misunderstood. Being active on social media is part of your overall plan (and many times even that is outsourced), I say PART of your plan, not THE plan.

And the advice of
"get active on social media" is just as bad as do art for yourself. Well, bad or good depending on what your understanding of the advice is....

I agree! That's because they are almost polar opposites in goals and methodology.
Very hard to balance the two.

It's like getting dating advice. We love to hear it, but never follow it. lol

I just remembered something. This topic was discussed as a TED Talk recently.
TED Talks Daily | How craving attention makes you less creative | Joseph Gordon-Levitt

I've pretty much given trying to create for a target market. My previous comic was an attempt to be "more accessible" than the prog-rock furry porn fantasy I stopped working on when I broke up with the writer. It ended up being a twisty mess of overlapping multiple storylines, out-of-order chapters, and oblique Phillip K. Dick realityfuck shenanigans. Now I'm working on something that started as a cartoon show pitch and blossomed into a sprawling cartoon animal space opera with a "good guy" and "bad guy" version of every character's design, and conflicting unreliable narrators.

I've quit wondering why Popular Artists are Popular. There's a bunch of reasons. They've been doing it for longer than it looks, they've been producing a lot of stuff for a booming fandom at the right time and take a chunk of that audience to their own thing, they've sunk some time and effort into advertising, or into SEO tricks that convince social media sorting algorithms into thinking their stuff is Popular and Relevant and should get bubbled to the top of everyone's timeline, or... whatever. There's usually been some degree of serious focus on broadening their fanbase in a way I personally can never really be bothered to do.

There's enough people who've discovered my work over the years and like it enough to sponsor me on Patreon for me to pay most of my rent doing this. Add in the occasional commission and some savings I'm slowly burning through and things are okay. It's been a long road of growing my audience, and honestly it seems like I get a lot fewer comments on my stuff than I used to in general. The internet's just fucking flooded with Content.

I dunno. You do it for yourself and put it online, and you get a slow trickle of people deciding they like it. Eventually there's enough with some spare money and energy for you to make a living with it, maybe even to spread the word suddenly and rapidly. And you just gotta stop caring if anyone likes it after a while.

“Indeed, the great paradox of the writer's life is how much time he spends alone trying to connect with other people.”

Betsey Lerner, The Forest For The Trees

You don't become an artist just so people will notice you.

But at the same time, I do relish every like, share, comment, or retweet.

It's a matter of keeping the two balanced.

Posting on social media and getting little response isn't like showing your friends or handing in an assignment, and being ignored or dismissed. It's more like setting up on an overpass, and not getting random honks from drivers as they speed by in their cars.

"Create for yourself" is really sidestepping the issue of getting no response.

Personally, I find it soul crushing and very demotivating the lack of response I get for my art.

It's weird though, because you'll see the most crap stuff get a lot of response and then some true professionals get very little. Then again some really great artists also get a ton of response.

I think part of it is; marketing art and making art are separate things. I'm personally really bad at marketing my art, but good at making art. Though, my inability to market bleeds into my art making by demotivating me.

So, I'm really trying to work on marketing now.