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Jul 7

oof i hope i didn't phrase things too poorly but i think if anything it's boils down to timing (whose online to see a post) and chance (whether the people who see it' do or don't decide to give a response). like i've posted threads here and other places and sometimes you get replies or manage to have a proper discussion and other times it's kind of spirals into...something else

i know that folks have a harder time giving you grace given you're full time here on the forums and not just recent activity but i want to believe that folks can be given second chances especially since you do seem eager to try to take in what advice is given it's just weeding out whats actually useful and whats just overly harsh and unnecessary criticism

but onto the second half

this ones hard to pinpoint since i personally draw from a lot of different things including video games, movies, television, comics and so on and my brain kinda clings to whatever i've digested recently (if that wording makes sense) so thinking of anything right this moment is a little difficult but if anything comes to mind i'll def come back to this

if anything i'm used to it following the metrics of like a jar filling so if the character is already stressed from seeing a thing thats reminded them of past suffering or are just generally overwhelmed then you're going to see progressive changes in their demeanor whether it's withdrawing or more adamantly trying to change a topic of conversation from something that would make them feel worse or just outright doging the subject if it's brought up. as for fallout i think i go for either spilling out (crying, trembling, being uneasy without noticing) or blowing up. sometimes it's a verbal thing sometimes it's in action but it depends on how your character expresses themself

plus not every response is ooc and if anything it can add to the layers of a character when they do something unexpected like the quiet character whose been holding onto their emotions finally lashing out to the surprise of their peers; so even though to those around them or even some readers it seems "out of character" it's really just been mounting emotions reaching their boiling point and the same can happen in reverse with the usually outgoing or chatty character suddenly becoming quiet and shut off or the "jokester" character becoming very serious and dry cut. it's one of those benefits to human emotions having such nuance because when you take in all factors you can see how things play together to create a certain result

its still a trail and error kind of thing so you'll obviously have to work out what you feel works best for your own characters but kind of studying out how people react to things and how people depict it in media as a point of reference will help

Nothing about your description would make them impossible to be funny. So I don't understand why you are needling people here for help.

Teenage and transmasc are just visual description of the character. Homeless and army deserter are just social class. What's left...people with PTSD can struggle with managing their emotions but I have met veterans with PTSD which just seem like average joes and can still be funny. PTSD is an invisible disability and not always obvious during casual conversations. Also saying your character is a goofball, you are telling me they are supposed to be funny, so what's the issue?

  1. Well, if they’re not advice threads, what are they? It’s hard to answer without that info. But generally speaking, yeah, advice threads and soecegic questions tend to get a lot more response than some other types. Like, if you’re asking for a review/feedback, that can be a lot of work, and so fewer people are willing to invest. Often times the hardest part is finding the first person to read and review, but once forum people see that one person respond, a few more are more willing to join in. Why? I don’t know. How do you get that first person? It’s just kinda luck.

  2. I wouldn’t know how to answer this without context. If there is a formula one can learn to this kind of thing, I simply don’t know it.

  3. Probably practice, mostly. This kind of thing can be subjective, too. Like I tend to enjoy/not mind tonal whiplash in things. But it bothers other people. Just keep the internal logic of the story intact?

  4. Sorry, I don’t know. As a neurodivergent person, you often have to work really hard and try lots of different things to find what works. I find I have to constantly find new ways to motivate and structure myself, because a truck that worked in the past becomes less effective as I change. Mindset, practice, will, research, google. You just never stop trying, my friend.

I didn't mean to imply these things would make it harder to give this character jokes because of his situation. I just meant I didn't mean it as like "This exact singular situation is the one where I want to work in the comedy" because I'm talking about comedy in general.

Like I don't know how to make a genuinely funny line happen in most of the narrative events going on here, no matter which characters are on screen. That's what I'm asking. Like... here's a scene.


Cut to them eating it.
Nobody (mouth full): This is so good.
Orion is kind of nervous about it but also kind of likes the attention.

Nobody: You really have a gift.
Orion: It's nothing, really.
This conversation is making him uncomfortable.
Nobody: (Insert funny line here)

Like what would go in that blank that's even a little bit funny? This is just one of maybe hundreds of moments where I just can't make it work, and but I don't want this character to not make a joke there. This is basically every situation. The only way I can imagine a properly funny joke is by reading it somewhere else.

I have written funny things before. I once knocked myself dead reading an old tumblr post where I said I had the media literussy, and that phrase still makes me laugh a bit, but that only works in a satirical tumblr post, you can't have a fictional character say shit like that.

Old jokes I wrote for Nobody were stuff like him mentioning cancer and holding up a Moe anime girl he pulled out of hammerspace, or ordering a sundae with beans, bacon, and hot sauce, then leaving without eating it, or saying "waste is based" after someone said the word waste. Like just nonsense for no reason.

I feel like there are probably blogs and books on how to write jokes/be funny. Sounds like that’s what you need. It’s too vast and complex a topic to get a straight forward answer in a thread imo.

You have a setup with no punchline. Your joke should be about Nobody (hate the name but whatever) overreacting. Their response should be making the gift into a big deal. Maybe hyping it up too much or going full self-deprecating. "I don't have any amazing gifts but I can..." then insert something silly or mundane. Orion then follows up with a reaction to said statement.

  1. Apart from what everyone else said, it's just been pretty slow around here lately. Maybe it's because it's summer, so people are out doing stuff and not online as much.

  2. Personally, I don't worry about this kind of thing. I just write characters while keeping in mind what their personality and motivations are like--that's what influences how they deal with any situation. Using technical aspects to drive the story forward isn't something that works for me. It's story/characters first and everything else like tropes, foreshadowing, etc. is determined by the story I'm trying to tell and the characters in it.

  3. So, for humor, it really depends on what the tone of your story is and finding the sort of humor that fits. Also, humor usually serves a purpose. A joke might be used to cut the tension, develop a character, or drop a detail that could be relevant later. Keeping in mind the sort of humor that fits the character and how they would respond in a situation helps makes jokes form more naturally. Also, maybe study the things that inspire you, and things that have the sort of humor you want to write and see why it works.

  4. I wouldn't know about this specifically, but in the times where I've had a rough time writing, it helps to have a set time where I sit down and try to write. Sometimes I wrote a single line, other times it was 3k words, but the point is that progress was made. Habits don't always form effortlessly, sometimes we have to make a conscious effort to maintain them. But also, don't be too hard on yourself if you're not writing thousands of words a day, that's perfectly fine. Everyone works at their own pace.

Okay I've decided I'm not even going to look at this forum again until I have five finished comic pages to show. That's when I come back next, not a second before. Bye now, again.

Don't forget sliding into peoples' dms to bug them even after they've been told they don't want to talk anymore as well....

im gonna be real: i think the folks who are this frustrated or dont want to be bothered simply mute the threads as they come up and dont engage rather than adding to the negative experience

like has op engaged in unhealthy behavior on the forums. yes. but it's been addressed and if it persists it's something to bring to mods not start infighting on the forums or dogpile because then it's wasted energy both ways

if you can curate your spaces or have the capacity to decide what you will or wont engage with then do so

I'm gonna be real too.

The moment you are online and share something, you are exposing yourself to other people's responses. If you can't handle other responses then don't expose yourself. You either grow a spine or everything will be rude words and you won't achieve anything if in top of a people pleaser you are literally doing nothing and disregarding anyone and everything unless its about you, you and you.
Just like there is no block button here, there is no impediment whatsoever for some to vent or expresss their frustration juts like others express admiration or sugarcoated words

Josh has received polite responses in the past from several people, people who had lots of patience and answered to the endless questions he had made both through making Topics on the Forum and through people's DMs and even got extremely entitled when some of us didn't answer to him via DM, so this post clearly looks like that very same entitlement from before and many rather shut that down than to continue enabling what clearly is a very wrong hyperfixation of his that is borderline clinically online addiction.

A lot of people has tried to help him, gave advice, provided resources and links both pink filtered and harsh, but its like he has no satisfaction whatsoever to anything we and others have said, we already tried to be teachers, therapists, colleages, explain it to him as if he was a toddler with graphics and drawings, and more but clearly, one thing is a person asking for a hand and a whole different thing someone who grabs everyone's arms and throws them into the water.

Something important about curating our own experiences I want to point out:
I started ignoring Josh as much as I could, he is a lost cause for me and no one here is qualified to give him the advise he desires due to how unsatisfied he is and there doesn't seem to be any kind of improvement or positive results from all the advice and time several had gave him for free, to me he is just ungrateful and an attention seeker, so I simply began to even stay less and less here, but guess that's not enough.
Some time ago, a notification popped up on my Ko-Fi, it was Josh ordering a commisssion, which is weird considering the bad history we have through exchanges here on the Forum, I would't go out of my way to announce myself to someone who clearly doesn't like me, I already dealt with him sending DMs demanding answers and snarling at me when I called out some of his bluffs regarding practicing and at least trying some of people's advice, which he clearly didn't do at all back then and now I don't care if he does apply said advice or if he really does practice every single day as he claimed.
I did the commission to remain professional but I suspected that it was just him testing the waters and probably seeking for further exchanges as I purposefully began to ignore him and engage less in the forum, and I confirmed this when some time later he popped on my Tumblr trying to offer me money because of some weird rule he put on himself about not visiting the forum and failing, I did not respond to him, deleted the message and blocked him from my Ko-Fi and Tumblr as I considered this extremely direspectful and out of place, besides dense and repetitive.

So I understand if you and @Jwebtoons try to be empathetic or don't know much about Josh's behavior, but personally I ran out of patience, I already lashed out at him from time to time, now I try to ignore him even if he did cross the line already with me. And in some places I cannot rely on a mod, I do have blocking tools and all, which yes I have applied, but this leaves me thinking if he did or is doing these things to others as well, and just because they have one last ounce of empathy for him, is that they don't call him out on that, but do call him out on what he is already known for doing and keeps going at it.

Artists, writers, adhd havers, autistic people and even mods have already tried with him, helping him in his art, his writing, his other off-topic questions, even about his own motivations on life and whatever, several gave up and now try to ignore him, so he shouldn't be surprised now that people won't bother giving him feedback or answer to his Topics, because they don't want to be dragged anymore to him digging and demanding attention, going into rabbit holes or trying to drain any ounce of exchange with them, and if its feedback he doesn't like, he'll just make another Topic making indirects while asking how to get his story to not be seen as said specific feedback or opinion which also makes him look butthurt.

I said I wouldn't come back until I had a proper comic, but I don't think anyone cares if I stick to that so I'll just respond to this before I commit to that.

It is. I'm sorry for that. I didn't do it intentionally, but I should have known at the time that that was what this is. It's entitlement. No one ever had to respond to my post and I actually think no one should. I'm just going to let those threads die now and give up on a second beta reader. I already have a beta reader for free and that's far more than I deserve.

You're absolutely right. I am chronically online and I'm addicted. I'm stuck at home all day, and I don't have a car or friends, so I spend all day on the computer. And I let this habit translate into misuse of this forum which turns my prescience into this invasive thing when I just want to be a normal unremarkable part of this internet space.

I'm going to make it a rule to only use this forum once a week, and I'm going to stop using the internet to pass the time and start getting a life. I won't be back until I'm done with my comic, and until I manage my social media usage I'm only going to use social media on Fridays.

Yeah, I was very disrespectful. I have a bad habit of being like this. I sort of ignored the fact that people on the internet were just other people and didn't think about how they were feeling in these situations. I would have found me super annoying too, and would have wished I could have just blocked me. I hate that I asked how to get people to want to beta read my story, like I was entitled to a SECOND free beta reader somehow. As if I couldn't just fix my own writing.

I'm going to stop asking for large amounts of advice, I'm only going to ask if I genuinely cannot progress without an answer, which will probably be never. Not like literally can't progress but like if I can't continue without asking. So likely the only posts I'll be making will be updates on my comic.

I know you don't believe me and you might not ever believe me but I promise I have been getting better because of all this information. I saved it all on a google doc for a reason.

I have definitely been ungrateful and I've been trying to show more respect to these people by spending months compiling a list of advice, and I've definitely been obsessed with attention. I think it's because internet strangers are the closest things I have to friends in real life. Like I don't know the dude who sat next to me in biology class half as much as I know you. But that's not what this forum is for and not even how I've been using it. It hurts looking back at old posts and seeing people who don't like me anymore treating me normally, and seeing how I ruined that all by myself by not appreciating all the collective effort and patience that has gone into helping me when I didn't deserve it or need it.

Do you mean when I thanked you for telling me to practice? Because I was trying to be 100 percent sincere about that, I wasn't angry at all, I tried to get into practicing and I'm going to try again. I understand now why you interpreted it wrong, but I genuinely had no sarcasm or malice in what I said. I don't know if you believe me but I promise that was the absolute truth.

If you mean the post where you pointed out I was playing the victim, yeah that was accurate. I didn't intend to play the victim, if I knew I was I'd not have said what I did, but passive aggressive whining that you didn't like my shitty unfinished fantasy script because it was boring, that was objectively self-victimization. I'm not a victim, I'm a nuisance. I should

I admit I was 100 percent trying to make it so we were on good terms by having an interaction that was not me being stupid and you reading me for filth again. Like I wanted to make it clear without invading your space that I liked and respected you and didn't bear you any Ill will just because you accurately identified me as a shitty person who deserves no ones time or attention. I don't know why I thought that would work, though. Nothing I can really do can make up for how I've been behaving and how long it took for me to genuinely reflect and how long it's taken me to really understand the depth of my mistakes.

I'm sorry for doing that. I shouldn't have tried to contact you any way when I knew you were avoiding talking to me. I also should not have tried to offer you those twenty dollars. It was an ultimately performative alternative to actually holding myself accountable for my mistakes, that you never asked me to hold steady to. Also I don't have a job, so it wouldn't have even been my money I was spending, it would have been my moms.

But... they do. People do it all the time. They never stopped. Even though I don't deserve ANY responses and don't know why people keep doing this. And I'm not surprised that no one wanted to be my beta reader, I would probably hate myself if I had to beta read my own writing for myself and answer all my stupid questions. I don't know how indigo has lasted this long, or how I got anyone to do this for me.

I am going to make a promise now, I will not ask any more stupid follow up questions to any advice. If I understand it as it's written, great. If I don't, then I just do nothing about that. If I ever post on this forum again. I don't understand why I ever did that. I wish I could identify what was even in my brain when I did that, but I can't. I'm also not going to do any indirects, even if I never hear a coherent critique of my writing again.

I didn't realize. I thought it was me sticking to my guns by giving myself genuine consequences for failing you. I should have realized that for you this isn't some redemption narrative, you just met an annoying person on the internet who doesn't know when to stop.

I'm going to try to live with my status as a lost cause and just do what I'm doing and be better because that's what I'm supposed to do, rather than hoping you'll ever think I'm not a bad person. I'm sorry for every argument we've ever had, I was the problem when I said I practiced, when I tagged your criticism, even when I left for several months hoping to redeem myself by fixing everything, but did nothing of the sort.

I don't know if I made the right choice responding, but it's not that big a deal and I figured I'd rather explain myself.

So I'm going to make sure this kind of drama does not happen again around me like, like ever. In fact if it does I will delete my entire account just to make this stop. I'm going to ask to have this post unlisted now because it's a waste of everyone's time.

This is exactly the reason I do not respond to his posts anymore. I am AuDHD (autistic and adhd), and I try to be empathetic. My heart goes out to anyone else that is learning about ADHD and autism, but I have reached my limit. And that takes alot. It is not like we have not tried at the start to be kind and understanding. I reckon many were far more patient than they should have been.

And while I do not mean to be cruel, but whenever I see a thread or a comment from him, I get peeved because I know we would be going through the same cycle all over again. The biggest thing that just makes me mad is when he inserts random questions about his story with giving no information prior. He expects us to read more into the story, in depth, to try and gauge what that character would say or if this action makes sense for this person. I hardly read at all (as I am a burnt out college student), but I certainly have no interest in reading a story for someone who seems to ask more questions that they write. This is absolutely mean by me, but I am being truthful here. Sorry for the brutal honesty but here lies a rant that I feel Red Lenai hints to. I am sympathetic and admire what you have done here, Red. You have handled things far more professionally than I would have.

Same props to Nick Rowler and Vibrant Fox who have been incredibly kind and willing to offer advice consistently. They have been far more patient that I would have been.

I’m confused. You constantly say you don’t have any motivation or are stumped when it comes to your creative writing. YET you wrote a large wall of text in response to RedLenai.

Maybe instead of being self deprecating, you apply your skills to your own work instead of the forums.

I would have waited to say this but it will take too long to get those pages done and it will get weird, and this thread will close soon so I won't be able to say this later.

Writing comments is basically talking with a keyboard, so it just fundamentally works differently than story writing in my brain. I know that's a lame explanation, but it's true.

I didn't mean to just self-depreciate, I was trying to take accountability for my mistakes to show that I did get it and was really trying to be a better person, and be as not-defensive as possible.

While I feel like I spend more time on my comic than on the forums, I thought about it and up until recently that's not actually been true, and might not be I actually think I'm gonna time it from now on. But next time I post to this forum it will probably be true. It's just been hard to stay focused because it's not a stupid dopamine machine like every social media machine is.