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Aug 2021

"I really don't like the protagonist. She's pathetic."

This was back when ChatAct existed (sister site to AllPoetry and StoryWrite). It was during a scene where I thought the protagonist was doing something funny, so it caught me off guard. It was also completely valid. I actually didn't like my main character, either, but I think it was the use of "pathetic" that was painful because I didn't think she was that bad (she really was, though). I still don't hear that word often unless it's meant to cut deep into one's soul :joy:

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    Aug '21
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And many of its variants.
About 10 for every 1 submission that gets accepted and paid for. :slight_smile:

Hmmm, maybe there's one episode that they said my story was kinda boring, and my OC is kinda meh~ but I accept it, in fact all of the negative comment I receive gave me an idea on how to improve my stories~ I got a lots of bashers and hateful readers but some of them become my loyal fans and even become one of my patrons~ I made him one of the villain of my story~ XD and he appreciate it~ though he still hates my series a little~ XD
Don't take personal about their opinions or suggestions~ and who knows those who comment you badly was one of the readers who really cares about your story~

Dang! That does hurt, but good on you for looking passed the pain and seeing your creation with new eyes. I don't know if they were valid in their assessment, but it's good to be able to pull yourself out of the work and look at it subjectively (because that's hard as heck to do).

My comic has a big cast and I spent a lot of time building up the supporting cast... but I ended up writing one of the leads, Artemis, on emotional auto pilot. When my wife read the first draft, she said "I don't get this character and I don't really like her." And it was a shock. My idea for Artemis was fully formed in my head (at least emotionally full formed), but yeah, she was flat on the page. It sucked, but it was fun going back and revamping the hell out of her dialogue (and it really made me smile when readers finally met her and dug her immediately).

The most painful feedback can be the best for the work (not always, but still).

I have been fortunate to not have received a lot of hurtful feedback with my work. But two instances pop into mind.

The first was that people didn't "get" what was going on in the story - mind you that they weren't reading past the first couple of chapters. It's not a clear cut sci-fi story and it's not a clear cut fantasy. So it didn't "make sense".

The other one was that my character's reaction to a panic attack didn't make sense. I wrote my MC's panic attacks based off my own experience with anxiety/panic attacks. I know what a panic attack feels like. The reader didn't think it made sense for my MC to ask for her dad when they were just barely reunited. Heck! She's panicking and just wants her dad.

Constructive criticism has never hurt me. It's frustrated me when I felt the person wasn't trying to understand, and then I became better and realized they were right.

What has hurt me is criticism from people I trusted to genuinely care and help me. Not the criticism itself but the way the criticism was completely off-base and could have been clarified if they had honestly read the story up to that point.

Case in point: I had a "friend" who offered to do some editing for me. I mostly wanted input and the fact she was as demanding about grammar as me helped. By Chapter 6, she was complaining that I was demeaning toward the female protagonist. I asked how. She said it's in the way the male protagonist keeps addressing her, his pet name for her.

It kind of took me by surprise because, well, the pet name was an important element to the story and explained in the Prologue. There is nothing demeaning about it in any way.

I mentioned the Prologue and asked if she had read it (If you're editing something, shouldn't you be reading everything?). She assured me she did and then continued on with a rant about how such a nickname is demeaning toward women.

I took a deep breath and tried not to take it personally. I even tried to reason with her and replied with, "Well, he isn't an actual black butterfly, either, but that's her nickname for him." I tried to laugh it off to keep the peace between us. She said there was nothing wrong with that but for him to be referring to his "little crane" made it sound like he was a predator of children.

I bit my tongue and pretended not to get that text.

A few days later, she messages me that she finally reached the first romance scene. She was "unimpressed." I said, "This isn't an erotica and it was their first time." She said, "Well, you say it's a drama and a romance novel, so it's supposed to be assumed that there's going to be smut. Not only did I have to wait until Chapter 13, but I was left unsatisfied."

Needless to say, she ceased being an editor (I was even willing to pay her $500 just for reading and giving basic feedback).

I think the "hurtful" part comes in learning someone you trust to be honest and take your work seriously doesn't really read your work and then uses you for some cheap thrill and a quick payout.

I experienced the same thing! I don't want to be too personal here, but mine involved an assault on a female character. It was quite a few years back and I no longer belong to the site. I was told that I don't know anything about being a victim and this person hoped I would experience it one day before I try writing from that perspective again. I explained that I'm not only a survivor but the group being posted to was for fiction based on our own experiences (kind of a therapy). I tried to explain that everyone is different and every situation is different. This person continued insisting I was lying and demanded further explanation of my experience to prove I had been through it. Thankfully, mods banned the person. On the internet, people don't consider their words and actions because of very few (if any) consequences.

Definitely. I'm sorry that you had to go through that type of experience.

And I think in terms of female characters, people on the internet have a hard time grasping the idea that we all don't respond the same way to every situation. Anger is a reaction, but so is joy, comfort, sadness, and even not really knowing how you (or a character) is supposed to feel.

My protagonist is still a strong character even though in a time of panic, she wants/needs her dad. There is nothing wrong with that.

That is one of the many rejection letters for manuscript submission that writers receive every now and then, and believe me, it hurts to get your researched and constructed labour thrown back at you more often than it is accepted.

But then one must get back on their feet and soldier on if one is to reach one's desired destination.

You came back swinging! That's great :slight_smile: Love the name Artemis, too!

That's painful. I was one of those narrow-minded people years ago who had a limited idea of how a victim responds to abuse (as someone who lived it for years), and I hurt a fellow writer with my "critique" on her character and how she dealt with child abuse. I realized as time went on that there's literally no limits to how one may react as a victim or a survivor or something/someone. It really sucks that she was hurt just for me to learn something I should have realized before.

Despite all of the awareness these days about mental illness, mental health, trauma, etc, there are still people who will gatekeep victims and their reactions. I've been told to my face before that my anxiety and my panic attacks aren't justified because the perpetrator had a "difficult life". How that makes any sense to anyone, I have no idea. Things are slowly getting better far as understanding the diversity of reactions in victims goes, at least. It's a very slow progress, and it should be much faster, but it's better than nothing.

I'm sorry both of you had these experiences. It hits on another level beyond just writing.

The situation you're describing @cherrystark makes SO much sense. I don't understand what the reader missed.

What? Where did this expectation come from? Most sex scenes I've come across are very vague and brief unless I've stumbled upon a Romance I didn't know had Erotica as a sub-genre. Maybe I haven't read Romance in a long time. Regardless, I don't think a story shouldn't be held to the expectations of what other writers have done with their stories in that way.

Sorry that happened to you and the friendship was no longer viable. I've experienced something similar, and to this day I won't let them read anything of mine because of it. Those pet names sound really unique and interesting!

Well said @emmzy. Looking back on it now, I think she was expecting the quintessential "strong female character" response where the female MC spews venom at anyone (particularlly a man) that hurts her. The fact that my MC has a sensory disorder or is prone to panic attacks probably never entered her head.

No feedback is the worst feedback for me.

It's not that the feedback itself was hurtful or rude, it's the constant rejection. No matter how polite it is, it's painful to hear 10 "no"s for every one "yes". And if you're hearing over and over "Oh, this is good and should be published- just not by me! :slight_smile: " that does start to sting.

Just my attempt to clarify, based on how I read it, I obviously can't speak for @CarltonIsaac !

I'm confused too. Without context, it looks like an excellent piece of advice, and a publisher cannot do much about the fact a work (even a good one) does not fit the type of work they publish.
Unless, of course, it does fit what they publish but they used that easy way to reject.. Don't know, don't know context.

I got this comment on the very last episode of the previous Web-Comic I wrote. (I am providing a print screen of the comment below.)

I was in a bit of a shock when I first read it, but thankfully it was the only one among many positive comments so I quickly got over it and moved on. This comment made me understand the saying, you can't please everyone, so just write for yourself. Make sure that if at least one person likes your story, that person is you.

The hurtful comment said:

Beyond this one comment, I have received many other comments from people (but usually in private) telling me what they didn't like or what they believed didn't work in my stories. I always see such feedback as opportunities to get better and none of them has actually ever hurt me yet.

I have also been lucky I guess, so far, to hear from people that were professional in their approach and they either didn't want to hurt me or were kind enough to take the time to offer constructive criticism that helped me understand their P.O.V and helped me become a better writer (or I hope so anyway :slight_smile:).

As for rejections, that others have mentioned, yeah I received plenty of those as well, and even though they can sting, they are unavoidable and anyone who is serious about being a writer (of any kind) will have to learn to deal with them I think. The worst I ever got from being rejected was a temporary lack of motivation before I got back to writing again.

That comment made me think of the old ladies at church who would let their toddler read the book of revelations in the bible whilst simulatiously claim tom and Jerry is too violet for their 13 year old and get it banned.

Dunno seems just a random nutter, who no one should take seriously.

"better let the murder go free...."
Yeah the would definatitly stopped Hilter, lynches of innocents and the toy box killer. 100% :rolling_eyes:

Some people need to go outside and look and the less fortunate from time to time... gives one some perspective

That random image is a sample of a rejection letter.

To aspire to be a professional writer rejection is part of the profession and each time it is a hit on morale after having put in the effort. to submit a piece.

thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com is one of the many sites that writers find publications to submit their writings to, if you wish to experience what is being refereed to,