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Sep 2019

Generally speaking any current controversial/trendy topics will be perceived as too preachy even if it's done right, just because the spotlights are on these topics IRL, seeing this in a fictional setting kinda highlight it even more.

Usually when I hear/read key words that's being overuse and thrown left and right, in a comic/movie/serie, I walk away.
Comic plays in the art of visual storytelling if the author can't find a way to make their point visually every time their "message/intent" is brought in the story, they should keep brainstorming.
I can give it a pass 1 or 2 times but if it's constant in their work, I can't.
Atleast if they are going to tell instead of showing, they should use other words than what twitter fingers use :joy:

Remember a lot of those early 2000 superhero films where they were forcing so hard to show a strong woman that they literally would write a caricature instead of...an actual character?

Like Elektra or (pukes in my mouth) Catwoman?

Or the 'super strong female love interest' who needs to be rescued ('Van Helsing')?

It was so weird, cause I watched Alien, Aliens, and Terminator 2 and those movies had strong women CHARACTERS (not caricatures) WITHOUT trying to pander to audiences...so...what was the difference?

They were writing characters to write characters. Not writing characters to pander to a base to get more money those greedy bastards.

When the writer tries to address modern social issues in a setting that lacks a background where this issue would come up in the first place. I've seen fantasy stories that try to address homophobia even though the setting lacks any homophobic context and it's just like...Does this writer know that homophobia wasn't even historically universal in the real world?

Why do we read fiction, or watch a movie, or listen to music? For entertainment, to escape the tedium of reality for a while. When 'the escapism escapes' that's when things get too preachy and it's time to flip the channel.

When there's an lgbt character introduced and everyone okay with them but that's not good enough.

something like this:

Random character: "Oh im so accepting of you, just be careful of the cake shop in town, the owners aren't very supportive of gay people, i'd avoid them."

Lgbt character: "YOU CAN'T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE MOM! I DO WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT MY CAKES! CLEARLY YOU'RE NOT SUPPORTIVE ENOUGH I SEE."

Seriously people need to stop writing characters like this, it makes them look rude. I know its a weird attempt at showing social commentary but damn you need to dial it back.

WHOA!

That is...that's just so out of left field. I am not really sure how it's effective commentary when it just looks like a caricature.

Worst part is i've seen several characters like this all attempting to portray lgbt people as positive .-.

When ideology takes the centre stage,and everything else is just an afterthought.

Agreed.

Whenever I start to feel like reality is seeping too much into my entertainment, or I'm taken out of the music or the scene because of it, I end up feeling tense, stressed, and angry. I feel like so much information is already freely available and being shoved into my brain that I really don't WANT it in my fantasy or escapism.

On the subject of social commentary, I feel like a lot of work these days that are supposed to act as social commentary are so...uncreative with how they're executed. They usually just replicate modern issues point by point into their stories, or if they're feeling reallyyyy out of the box, pull a simple "replace x population in this story with y population in real life" instead of creating an issue within their story that at face value does not exist in reality but would stimulate critical thinking and allow audiences themselves to link and interpret the issues in the story to real life issues.

Yeah, I know the argument of "people will be more impacted from a story than just reading an article" but if you're not going to address the issue in a creative manner in your story, then you might as well go the non-fiction route and dramatize someone's biography.

I understand that it's jarring when done poorly but isn't the point of weaving ideology into fiction narratives to create an emotional connectivity to situations outside the viewer's norm?

I guess my main complaint mainly refers to fantasy and sci-fi works where there's not as much need to constrain to reality. I don't mind it as much if it's supposed to be set in a realistic setting, but in something that is supposed to be set in a world or reality different from ours it gets kind of stale when you run into space nazis in a sci-fi for the 123498961th time or have gender discrimination in a high-fantasy be another typical "women should stay in the kitchen" type of deal. There are more ways to make commentary than just replicating reality.

Understandable but the Nazi thing is probably more narrative shorthand than social commentary at this point. If they attempted to create something "new" casual audiences could glaze over from the world building.

Carnival Row would be an example of trying to replicate socio-political themes of a different war and it's giving some viewers fits.

I guess this is why i dislike most pure evil villains. They seem like an easy way out instead of planning your villains and it gives you more time to make your chosen one protagonist preach about the righteous thing to do.

When it comes to sci-fi or fantasy, I'd love to see diversity mainly because climate and geography have different effect on people and their origins. I think skyrim did this discrimination against Dark Elves well without appearing too preachy. because it made sense in the lore.


Also, this is more common in action movies, but I'm getting tired of that "broken man protagonist who got his wife killed so now he's out for revenge" and that's his only personality so the movie can preach about how badass he is because he's an ex cia or whatever. Nothing softens his heart and every woman seems to want to fuck him. lol

i mean, it can totally work. having a parent killed/ etc. but these action movies just throw it around so cheaply...

it can work better if your character has an actual development from said tragedy other than "i'm gonna murder everyone lol". And way better if it's a negative to positive development.

depressed > wants revenge > realises he's no different from the one who killed his wife > maybe he's caused more harm to others (who care about him) during his dark times> redeems himself.

but hey, that requires a well written storyline and we all know action movies don't like that. instead, give him pure evil antagonists and cronies he can kill during shootouts.

who cares, he can headshot the guy driving the car from miles away with a revolver. so badass. :joy:

Actually, good examples would be batman and spider-man. The murder of those dear to them shaped who they became.

I guess, personally speaking, I just really dislike tragic backstories for people who resort to killing. Villain or anti-hero. Stain from BNHA worked so well because he had a reasonable goal without that bs backstory. He wasn't killing heroes because his wife got murdered lol. Antagonists are more interesting when they're sick and mysterious. No amount of backstory is going to justify what your evil, evil villains have done.

again, this is just a personal opinion.

This is why I prefer morally ambiguous characters with an open ended meaning to the story. We should work to present the ideas we are passionate about and start a discussion based around a concept, not tell the reader how they should feel about said concept.

I can't stand preachiness :rage: It is okay to be a decent human being and want to make content that "helps" society. However, lately it is starting to feel like we have to do educational manuals instead of comics and novels!!!

I particularly hate when an autor pushes a specific ideology through the main character and the rest of the characters are always idiots who are in the wrong. In real life there is no way to be always right and content like that promotes the idea that everyone who supports different ideas than you are bad.

Also a lot of readers can't stand even a little of political incorrectness withouth being like "omaigaaaad, this is like, sooo problematic, cancell this!!!".

Of course it is problematic and it is allowed to be that way, it is called diversity of thinking.

This has turned me of so many stories, in practically every medium I couldn't even count them.

Pretty much anytime I sniff out an ideological agenda I'm done. You want to write a story that weaves a certain worldview or political stance or social issues or religious belief into its themes, then go for it, as long as the primary reason you're doing it is to tell a good, meaningful story. But if your primary goal is political propaganda, or social justice, or proselytising your religion, I'm done.

Examples of successfully weaving religious or social themes into a story are Christianity in LOTR and The Matrix, and racial harmony in Zootopia and The X-Men. V for Vendetta is one of my all time favourite stories, and it centres around themes of authoritarianism and how ideologically focused governments can become totalitarian, all without admonishing me for who I may or may not vote for.

Some egregious recent examples of intolerable preaching are the Cloak & Dagger TV show and 90% of comics made by Marvel since 2015.