Sep 2021
9 / 12
Sep 2021
Jan 2022
Saint01
Sep '21
1

Hello all, Saint here. The purpose of this post is to seek some valuable advice in regard to adding deeply psychological and philosophical to my story.

So, as someone who has never really studied up on philosophy and is very much a novice writer(as in I only have one story up my belt and it's still in progress). What would be some things to consider when placing such things inside of my story. I want to ensure that by its conclusion it is as thought-provoking as it is tragic.

Update: I am genuinely surprised people are still finding and righting answers to this old thread. I appreciate all the feedback and even though the original story I was working on at the time of making this thread has long since been re-written with a different plot and approach to the world, characters, and themes I want to present, I shall take the feedback left here and do my best to apply it with the re-write.

  • created

    Sep '21

  • last reply

    Jan '22
  • 11

    replies

  • 964

    views

  • 11

    users

  • 16

    likes

  • 1

    link

kmlangleyauthor
Sep '21
1

I think the most important thing to consider, initially, is what would be logical for the story. Don’t just drop in psychological issues to add a sense of tragedy. If it doesn’t contribute to the overall storyline or the character’s experience, maybe hint at it, but don’t let it dominate the writing.

Second, it’s defiantly worth it to do some research on this. You obviously can’t have experience with every single thing you write about, but there is a plethora of information available. (I don’t have a link, but there’s even whole subreddits and tumblrs with people giving information about various topics for the explicit purpose of helping people writing about those things.)

Think it through. Figure out what fits. Don’t try too hard to make something tragic – lead with character development on that front and go from there. (Maybe look into doing a fall arc. Those can be quite tragic as the story goes on.) And best of luck!

nostalgicroxas
Sep '21

Honestly as dumb as it sounds, start reading around some philosopher's work.

Kant, Aristotle, Yung, so on and so forth.

If you want a "lite" version of one philosophy, there's a book titled the "the te of Piglett" which goes into I believe tao te ching?

That or look up on a kids youtube some easy to digest philospher's stuff if you aren't wanting to look into reading the actual hard books.

sevenstarsofeightIam
Sep '21

I found the philosophy of Nietzche interesting. That being said, every philosophy will have its nay-sayer. What drives most people is emotion and misinformation. What drives a story is confrontation. Whatever you wish to put in your work, let action move it forward.

DokiDokiTsuna
Sep '21

I dunno how well it would work to "add" philosophical/psychological moments to a novel, because that kind of thing works best when you build the story around it. If you really want to achieve 'depth', you have to have the characters reflect on their lives and circumstances, AND give them plenty of time to act on those reflections.

If they don't get that time, then anything they say will just come off as hamfisted or pretentious...it will be obvious to the reader that these philosophical moments don't actually matter to the story, and the only conclusion left to draw is that you put them there just to make yourself/the character sound smart. =/

Anyway, pretty much any kind of story can have a deep philosophical aspect, so if you're willing to work for it, you can make it happen. Just pay close attention to the struggles the characters are going through, and try to draw conclusions/overarching themes about their lives. How would the characters react if they were able to draw those same conclusions? How could you mix and match these themes to create a 'harmony' within the story that a reader could pick up on?

Like, say one character's theme is 'hope' and another's theme is 'despair'...showcase that; draw parallels between their lives; use them to build each other up or tear each other down, so that a reader will get plenty of chances to compare these characters and discover the threads you're weaving throughout the story. That's one way to go about it~

Ordinaryaverageguy
Sep '21

I do that sort of thing when I think it illuminates a character's motives or actions. But I won't say "go, thou, and do likewise" since I don't have a lot of people giving me a thumbs-up.

monotone_ink
Sep '21

Don't 'try' to be psychological and philosophical - as soon as you do that, your story will fall flat on its face, and it will come through as forced and akin to a facade.

The great novels of the past weren't psychological or philosophical for the sake of being such - they only naturally became so because they tried to answer extremely difficult and important questions.

Start reading up on the great classics and on any philosophy books that interest you. If you want something heavily psychological, I would suggest anything written by Dostoevsky - he's usually cited as having a really good understanding on the human mind (and perhaps the heart too).

Shomin
Sep '21

I tried to add into my novel too... The difficulty of it is it should be the whole stake of the story. So it ended up not so effective. My story is in here: https://tapas.io/series/Tales-of-Teleios2

The Latest episode have some philosophical element, about leadership.

The overall story, is a Sucker Punch. Boys might not enjoy this story,
I'm trying to pick on the feminism, women as baby making vessel, fgm, lgbtq+, religion issue.
But it's just an art form, I'm not a good writer, my English is terrible. I hope to adapt it to manga in future.

fleurravenbooks
Sep '21

It's really good idea, but don't do it just to do it. Think of what you want to put and how well it fits, don't be just "I'm smart so here you go!". Reaserch,research and research (read books, forums on that topic, watch youtube videos ,...)

thedude3445
Sep '21

I encourage you to study up on philosophy so that you can write these scenes as best as possible. And you'll learn cool stuff, too.

3 months later
Breezy
Jan '22

Write about things you care about. Decide what psychological and philosophical topics matter to you and then read tons of books on that topic. If there is nothing that peeks your interest, think of your life. What ethical dilemmas have you faced in your life?
Ethical dilemmas occur when two or more values come into conflict. For a quick example everyone is familiar with: abortion: yes or no? Don’t answer, but the two values that are in conflict in this question are non-malevolence (the principle of do no harm) and bodily autonomy.
So, think about when two or more values came into conflict in your own life for starters or if you’re really imaginative, create a scenario in which two values clash. For example:
Did someone hurt you in the past and you want to know if you should forgive them or cut them off? (Forgiveness vs. Justice) Did a popular kid ever ask you to help them cheat for a class or maybe to do drugs? (Integrity vs. Hedonism) Maybe you have children of your own and you have wondered how to help them make healthy decisions without pressuring them to be a certain way. (Responsibility vs. Independence) Life is full of these interpersonal questions of morality and how to make the best choices. Ground your story in characters and their relationships to make it feel real.

In philosophy there are two major schools of thought or frameworks: utilitarianism and non-consequentialism (also called deontology). These are basically the methods we use to decide what is right and wrong. Once you’ve decided on an ethical question (i.e. should I choose this or this) and identified what values are coming into conflict, then you can make an argument about which ethical framework you will use to justify the decision. Is the end result the only thing that matters (utilitarianism) or is the way we achieve our goals matter (deontology)?
So let’s practice with the age old question of socialism vs. capitalism. Values coming to conflict when we ask whether we should implement a new social program are often: independence, agency, and self-determinism vs. community, good-will, and interpersonal responsibility.
A deontological philosopher could argue for either socialism or capitalism. Maybe agency is more important than community or the other way around? Deontologists are the people that want to “get to the heart of the issue”, and talk about the “morality” of this or that.
On the flip side a utilitarian philosopher could also support either socialism or capitalism. One who supported social programs could say that socialism maximizes happiness for everyone by spreading wealth. Some people argue the exact opposite by saying socialism just doesn’t work so the end result will always be poverty. This is basically the argument that the invisible hand of the market maximizes GDP.
Utilitarian philosophers are typically more practical than deontologists and in my experience a lot more knowledgeable about a particular topic, because they often can more accurately predict what will happen given a certain circumstance. However, most of us our deontologists at heart. Humans are hardwired to react to ethical dilemmas based on our “gut” not the consequences. Don’t believe me? Look up the Trolly Experiment for reference. Deontology appeals to our emotions and deep sense of right and wrong, so people often revert to that in high stress situations.

This tension between conflicting values and conflicting frameworks are interesting to explore in novels. As I’ve demonstrated, most ethical questions can be analyzed from either a deontology or utilitarianism perspective and result in either endorsement or dismissal of a certain course of action. Many authors will focus on either values or ethical frameworks to create two conflicting characters (protagonist and antagonist), but the best novels mix up values and frameworks to create four or more conflicting viewpoints. Even just having a protagonist and an antagonist who approach a problem differently (not just come to different conclusions or value different things) can be interesting if you feel overwhelmed making large casts of characters.
Anyways, that’s how I think about writing, but that’s probably just because it was the way I was trained in the idk even know how many ethics, philosophy, and theory classes I had to take for my major in college. Hahaha 🤣

11 days later
Saint01
Jan '22

I am genuinely surprised people are still finding and righting answers to this old thread. I appreciate all the feedback and even though the original story I was working on at the time of making this thread has long since been re-written with a different plot and approach to the world, characters and themes I want to present, I shall take the feedback left here and do my best to apply it with the re-write.