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aqua03Party Planner
Nov '20

This has been something I've been thinking about a lot recently as I've been rethinking my relationship with the Dragoons characters and their world.

I've spent so much time trying to tailor these characters to what I think other people want that now that I've been trying to ditch that mindset, I'm trying to figure out just what I want with my characters.

Like, I've realized i have bucket loads of ideas for what I want to do with the world and story of Drachenseele, but I can;t decide on which one I like the best and which would be the best for my story.

With webcomic, I know that writing what you want comes first instead of just chasing trends and pandering to the people for success, but the thing is: How do you decide what you want with your story and put yourself first in the creative driver's seat?

That's something I've always kinda struggled with because i guess I;m worried coming off as cringy or self indulgent with my work in general.

So how did you guys decide on what you wanted with your comic in that regard instead of constantly chasing after what you guys thought other people wanted?

Thanks again for the help.

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    Nov '20

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    Dec '20
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elyss
Nov '20

I'm in the middle of scripting a stand-alone and the thing that's grounded me is a question that I've created for the story to solve. The question is simple: When can you forgive yourself and move on? It's helped me avoid overthinking what others want. I as the writer want to answer this question and if the audience wants to see it answered then they stick along for the ride and if they don't they move on. I don't find myself pandering to the mainstream or what's popular in doing this.

That doesn't mean I completely ignore the audience though. I consider things that the audience will like that won't affect my story outcome. For example, maybe there's a character who's visually in line with the current idea of attractiveness, maybe I make a point of avoiding certain tropes, etc.

It's good to consider the audience, but it's also important to know where to draw the line in that relationship. Figure out what you want to give the audience power over and what you want to hold close to your chest. It become much less stressful.

IndigoShirtProd
Nov '20

Here come the double edged sword of asking for advice on something like this. Only you know what you want for your stories and characters, and when you look to other people for what they would want, it muddies the waters.

For me and my comic, I wanted to make a tropey, cliched, Saturday morning cartoon style of comic that feels nostalgic for people around my age but could also appeal to those younger than me. The comic isn't speaking to a greater cause, doesn't take much to get into, and is pretty surface level at a glance. Those are things I wanted not only because I thought it would be easier to execute, but also because I absolutely love stories like that and I wanted to replicate that.

What's wrong with being self indulgent? You're making this comic because you want to, right? The whole endeavor is self indulgent, especially because you're not getting paid to do this, I assume.

It feels as though you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to make something great, something you've mentioned before, and haven't considering doing something because you want to have fun with it.

Honestly, I seems as though you're using the forums as a crutch. You keep returning here for answers to questions we can't technically answer for you; only you have the answers to many of the questions you've posited.

So I ask you, what do you want for your story? Not what heights and successes do you want it to reach. Not what audiences want or previous partners want. Be honest, what do you even want?

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Nov '20

I just put what I want in my story. I don't care how it comes across.

Legendofgenii
Nov '20

That's a massive question. It'll be different for everyone I'm sure.

I haven't shared my written story with anyone yet - just the comic version, but personally my ideas grow from my experiences, research, places I've been to etc. When writing I play around with different scenes and scenarios in my head (day dreaming I guess) first and if I think they are good I'll jot them down. Even still - when changing it into a comic I have changed bits here and there, they both seem to change one another.

By tailoring your characters to what you think other's want - do you mean how they look or how they act?

Have you written the story out anywhere yet (even if it's just for yourself)?

WillowTree
Nov '20

The best part of being a creator is being able to create what you want to create. This isn't really a question that can be answered for you because no one knows what you want to create except you.

I sometimes have certain themes I want to explore (addiction/gender/sexuality). Sometimes it's strictly about power dynamics (age-gaps, employer/employee relationships). Sometimes I just want to write about a shark monster who's falling in love with a fisherman. I think of something interesting so I write about it. Sometimes it pans out into a full length novel, sometimes it's a short story(novellette/novella). It's never a waste of time because with every single project, I learn more and I grow more as a creator. Sometimes it's nothing but pure self-indulgence (shark monster story!). Sometimes it's super cringey.

You just have to stop talking about your story and start writing it. Write down things that you think might be interesting for you story. Write down character arcs you might want to explore. Get thoughts and ideas down somewhere that you can read over them and decide if it's really something you want to do or not. The more you do this, the easier it will start to be for you. Skills grow with practice and skills include being able to decide if an idea is worth expanding on or not :heart:

aqua03Party Planner
Nov '20
Legendofgenii

Mostly bits and pieces, I have a general skeleton structure for how I want it go, but nothing super in depth.

Yeah, mostly just by relying too much on the feedback, opinions, and ideas of others in general I've noticed along with just general looking at popular comics and trying to copy them to a T as well.

That's a good point. I guess often times I worry too much what other people think of my stuff and me as well. I'm always kinda terrified of putting my passion project out there only to wake up one morning to find a multi hour long video nitpicking every little thing about my work and how it sucks followed by a bunch of internet funnymen parroting those points ad nausuem like they think they['re the smartest things ever if that makes sense. That's probably something i in general should just ignore and just go forward with it regardless of what randos on the internet think.

I think you might be right there. I think I have been using these forums as a crutch of sorts. I think it might possibly stem from a general fear of what people think of me in general that I've been struggling with in general it seems. SO I constantly have to rely on the feedback/validation of larger and more successful creators I admire/look up to in feeling that they've "got the sauce" I need like an alchemical formula of sorts for magically getting over my problems and being successful it seems. It's something I've been working on recently because I've realized that it isn't a very healthy mindset to have.

MeltingCORE
Nov '20

Oh yeah, this is defintely a big question! So, I'd like to just say that you shouldn't feel worried or ashamed about your work being "cringe". Write what makes you happy. That is all that matters in the end. I guess portions of my work could be considered "cringe" with the alien invasion stuff. But! It makes me happy and I think it's cool. :grinning: Basically what I'm saying is write for you and that's how you'll find what you want.

DiegoPalacios
Nov '20

Cringe is relative.......what is cringe for some, is cool for others.

Also, the sooner you accept that no matter what you do, not everyone will like your work, the sooner you will reach peace with your creative proccess.

tastes are personal and different for each person.

Popular is not something liked by everyone, is just something that resonated with a huge audience.

IndigoShirtProd
Nov '20
aqua03

I think for the next time, when you have a question for the forums, don't ask the forums. Especially if you think you can answer it yourself.

keii4ii
Nov '20

Took me years to realize what I wanted out of my story. This was the process:

-November 1994: come up with the progenitor of what eventually led to my current comic. I was in middle school, and the story smelled exactly like a middle schooler's dreams.

-Summer 2003: revival. Start toying with the ideas that were present in the 1994 version, but take them to entirely different directions. Some of these ideas eventually became a different webcomic -- a cousin of my current one, if you will.

-2012: Second revival. Revisit the ideas that were present in the 1994 version, but got left out in the previous webcomic. This led to the First Edition of my current webcomic, only published in Korean. The First Edition began 2013 and ran for a year.

2014: The realization hit me: the First Edition was not the comic I wanted to make. It wasn't that it was "bad." It was not a bad version of the story I wanted. It was an entirely different story. So I scrapped all of the pages and started over.

Fast forward to November 2020, and the Second Edition is still going! It's not without its flaws, but at least it's a (flawed) version of the story I need to tell!!!


Hey, some of us prefer to think out loud with company, and there's nothing wrong with that! (Within reason, of course.) It's okay to want support even when you pretty much know the answer.

IndigoShirtProd
Nov '20

I do think that thinking out loud and asking for help and advice is a good thing. But if it's a crutch, and you can't move forward on any aspect of your project without asking for input, it's not healthy. For big decisions and things you might be ignorant on, it's a good thing to ask from others who may know more than you. Otherwise, you should work up the nerve to consider and answer those questions yourself.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Nov '20
aqua03

I dunno man. You've been making at least one thread a day about these subjects. At some point you'll have to either just start, or... don't and move on with your life.

There's literally nothing else I can say about this stuff that I haven't already. You're repeating the same topics over and over. That's why I haven't really chimed in lately, because you're not making any progress forward. At least not that I can tell.

aqua03Party Planner
Nov '20

Yeah, I really have been on kind of a treadmill regarding this recently I've realized I've been on now that you mention it.

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what the right course of action is for me with my stuff is given the recent developments and realizations I've had regarding my relationship and thought process with them. I should also be more patient and let it heal and process more naturally as opposed to rushing it to get it on with as fast as possible like it seems I have been doing recently.

That reminds me of some advice one of my writing friends gave me the other day, "Either do you best, or don't do it at all, and I'll still love you (as a friend) either way." Hopefully I'll find what the right decision is soon enough.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Nov '20

I do want to help and inspire, when I can. It's just I want to see more progress out of you, so that I know what I'm saying is helpful and justifies the time to type it out.

For what it's worth, I would like to see you make this project work. You just have to start trusting your instincts a little more. I think you will surprise yourself if you stick with it. Might even take a few months or years while you work on it.
I know that's what happened with me. My recent pages are kinda epic, and while that might sound like a brag, I don't intend it that way. I legit surprised myself with the overall rise in quality from my own work recently.

Comics take a lot of time. But you have to start, or else you'll stagnate.

paracosmosfiction
Nov '20

I only ever write what I personally want to write. I see no reason trying to write anything else. The thing is, I personally believe you can write something that you're personally invested in and still make it a good story with an interesting premise that draws people to your work.

If you're not passionate about the project you're working on, it's not going to be your best work. Plain and simple. So you might call your work self-indulgent, but really, it's just what you're interested in working on the most. And I'll say this, if it's really a project you're passionate about, you'll find a way to make it work. You'll get your idea out there in such a way that others will want to see it as well. Don't hold yourself back with worries of "But will the readers like it?" Ask yourself first and foremost "Do I like it?" then proceed from there.

aqua03Party Planner
Nov '20
nathanKmcwilliams

Thanks. That really means a lot to me to hear that, actually. :slight_smile:

I should really work on both trusting my creative instincts more and also be patient enough to stick with my projects and let them grow and flourish as opposed to kicking the restart button at the first sign of failure or having that constant niggling thought of "But what if something happens to me before I get to the really good part of my story like I die or a piranha eats my drawing hand?" that seems to always peep in a lot when I'm working on Drachenseele as well. I should put aside those fears and just go with the flow and my own gut instinct and see what happens. Who knows? maybe I'll surprise myself with the results?

nickolaidas
Nov '20

The whole point of my story is - if I am blessed to actually see it through the end - to have the readers as well as the characters experience the last issue, feel a sense of closure after reading this huge epic story and say,

'Man ... what a journey that was.'

rajillustration
Nov '20

I just write. I don't post right away (in fact it takes me a long time to get the story to where I show other people) so for a good while, that's just a story for me. That I'm doing for myself.

If I ever feel like "I don't want to do this anymore" then I'll assume that idea doesn't interest me and I'll walk away. Sometimes, years later, I'll come back to a thing and realize "oh, I actually want to dive back into this, I found out how to make it fun for myself."

cherrystark
Dec '20

I prefer to write organically so a lot of my development came with what felt right for the story and characters. The main idea was inspired by a couple of shows I liked and a few "what if" questions. I knew that my idea was good because of the fact I am still working on the same series like two years later. The first story went through countless rewrites before I got brave enough to first post and a couple more revisions after that. I had an idea for the second story in the series a day or two after I finished the first one. I always talk through the logistics of each story with my brother and his wife, but the story ideas are solid so I keep going.

I think your story should be like the idealized job if you love what you're doing, it's not work. If you're not inspired to keep putting words and pictures to the page, it might not be the right idea for you at the moment.