Is this racist?

foxnflames · May '21

Also another actual black person chiming in I’ll lead with this: I’m going to assume your friend isn’t black, otherwise this question wouldn’t be brought up. And if this is a concern this early on, any other character and world building will go exponentially downhill from here .

I agree with the above. White hair with no purpose, or if this character isn’t Japanese, is a tired trope and diminishes the opportunity to display a black character beyond token featurism with “exotic” aesthetic. Also, @LCT_m_a_d brought up a good point because a lot of people tend to claim dark skinned Asian anime characters as black which not only may be completely erroneous, but it contributes to the erasure of dark skinned Asians in media.

Personally, names are one of the last things I come up with. I’d implore your friend to flesh out their character, do research, then figure out how important this proposed name is.

Aleksei · May '21

Just a question, is this racist?

We all know Storm from ages, and I am not aware of any kind of racist call for her hair, or name (Ororo meaning 'beauty'). Her's hair and eyes are explained as genetic legacy, not part of her mutation, and play for her backgrounds.
I say that if Marvel could do this, you could too. Just flesh out everything to have a meaning, and not a description of something that we can already see, and everything will go fine.

Wumbl · May '21

I'm not really going to argue with you anymore because it's evident you're not arguing in good faith - you're not speaking with asians you're speaking for us - your original post was you using actual asian authors' characters as examples for why it was totally fine, when those characters weren't like the one OP mentioned.

I'm specifically talking about a black character being portrayed this way. If you can't see that, I'm not willing to fight over something as simple as POC's right to self-determine what we're offended by.

If you don't see what's bad about a black character being exoticised and refuse to understand that there are nuances to this situaiton that's fine, don't make it my problem though because I am tired of being talked down to.

This isn't about you so where you're coming from is not really important? If that makes sense. This conversation is specifically about non-asians using japanese names, and black/brown skinned characters being portrayed incorrectly.

MK_Wizard · May '21

... I don't know. I'm not black, so I would think the name "Shiro" (white) is referring to his hair and that maybe he got his name because of his hair, so it doesn't look problematic to me. It's not like he is trying to be a white person or wishes to be a white person. He is just a black person with white hair.

On another webcomic I read, Stringy and Mopy, one of the characters is called Snow White and she is black with black hair and doesn't even dress or look like Snow White. So maybe it is a case of overthinking it.

Tanako · May '21

As a African American artist, its not a big deal. she should go right ahead. one of my african characters have blond highlights. and, the old music artist "sisco", died his hair white.

well now he's blond.

sorible · May '21

Agreed. When I look for names, I like names that have a story or names that have a nice ring to it, rather than a meaning behind it. Unless it is explicitly explained and relates to the story, most people will just overlook it. I would recommend your friend research into some names in Japanese culture. I have seen a few stories with main characters named Norang (yellow) or Hayan (white) but those kind of names are easily forgettable.

DiegoPalacios · May '21

I think context on the setting and the character can help better to see how much the name and the character's look can be fitting or not......

bluejamtoast · May '21

?????
Yo seriously I have no bad will. I guess it's lack of body language and voice but re-read my responses with a light tone not aggressive/confrontational.

OP asked if people found it racist, I replied literally starting with imo no. I gave examples of fictional characters literally named Shiro after their aesthetic characteristics

You respond with its not a good equivalent because they are Japanese whilst OP's friend's character is not. I then gave examples of Japanese characters with quirky english names to illustrate why I think it is acceptable. I never once thought of this as an argument but a discussion, I was replying to your reply??? How else would I convey my thoughts?

I'm a POC too (black west african) and simply presented my own thoughts on the matter, so please don't dismiss me when it comes to my opinion on how black characters can be portrayed...

Obviously we have different upbringings cultivating in different perspectives on the matter but for me growing up there was a rhetoric that dark skins can't wear bright hair colours, black girls look ugly with bright lipsticks etc etc, excessive policing on beauty expression and standards that those of fairer complexion were not held too something I vehemently disagree with hence why I am ok seeing black/brown skinned characters with unorthodox colour palettes for hair.

Take Atsuko Jackson, dark skin, 4c hair texture, white hair colour, Japanese name, western surname. Its all stylistic and unrealistic but in context of the anime it works and I personally am a huge fan of the character design

I have different standards for different projects depending on the target market and genre. Assuming its not grounded in reality then its fine imo. In the same way a world with a japanese ninja with blonde hair blue eyes named literally fishcake a dark skinned character with white hair named Killer B works, my point is why be realistic/super accurate??

Why do you feel talked down too/that it is your problem. I'm literally just replying to your reply to my reply???

This isn't about you so where you're coming from is not really important? If that makes sense. This conversation is specifically about non-asians using japanese names, and black/brown skinned characters being portrayed incorrectly.

In order to communicate one must understand the other persons perspective no?

For me it is just like this

Light Yagami, japanese dude with unorthodox english name

To conclude, a black character named Shiro after their hair is a not racist. Corny yes. But if the rest of the world the characters created is of the same vein then its fine.

Can a third party comment whether my responses come across as rude?

foxnflames · May '21

Marvel doing something and any other creator is not the same thing. At all. And you literally addressed the elephant in the room with this statement, rendering it a moot point. From the OP, we don’t know why this character has white hair. Like you pointed out, there’s a reason for storm having her hair color and eyes. And gee, her name has cultural significance to her.

General statement: I don’t see why some of y’all are cherry picking and doing all these leaps and bounds to miss the point so hard.

@Prince_Wumbl you are a gem. There’s no way I’d expend so much emotional labor repeatedly making the same point. You’ve explained yourself and the point and I’m sure drawing it out in crayon wouldn’t help.

@Tanako there’s a big difference in choosing to dye your hair and slapping some random features on a black character. And even if said character had an unnatural hair color, it’s a choice by the creator, which still begs the questions, why.

Editing to add: racism doesn’t exist in a vacuum. A black character with white (and any other color) hair isn’t inherently racist. But shying away from Afro centric features and the like is a slippery slope and I’ve seen so many people take a tumble. Also, as said above, giving characters culturally significant names (also a general statement) because you think it “sounds nice” is appropriation.

And comparing eastern and western culture when it comes to a lot of things (names) is apples and oranges.

TAMAnnoying · May '21

This discussion is usless since we don’t have nearly any information about the world building.

Like absolutely zero.

People seem to always forget the factor that parents are the ones who’ve named to character and thus would be the people responsible for the well chosen or badly chosen name.

Parents can name their children whatever they want so long as the government approves of it- which again is world building information.

You could call your character/child Tree if you wanted. Is it weird? Yes. Is it something you can do? Yes. Will people call them tree if they meet them? Maybe, maybe not. Professor OAK is a name that exisits and is in fact named after a tree SO.

I don’t even know if this is a historical story which naming conventions would be important or a “neo Japan- totally not actually callafornia” setting where naming conventions arnt even a real thing anymore.

If it’s supposed tp be a modern setting then naming conventions aren’t even important anymore because there’s PLENTY of children named after GOT characters now. People name their children after things they like most of the time so like???

The only actually racist thing about this entire conversation is people are asking if someone with dark skin is allowed to be called a word that means “white” thinking skin color is more important then

Personally
Family
Setting
Time period
Any amount of time on world building
Story
Themes

IndigoShirtProd · May '21

Right, true, but um, yea, the creator if the character has the be all end all on what a character's name is. And also Shiro could easily be a nickname given to the character as well, it doesn't have to come from their parents or guardians.

Let's not call people asking questions and informing themselves in an effort to be less ignorant, racist. There are plenty of loaded questions out there that have those specific implications. I would posit, that this is not one of them.

Tanako · May '21

does it really matter? its a fictional character so it shouldn't matter. every one is free to create what they want as long as it's not offensive. i know its hard to tell whats offensive to people but you can't please everyone. I have a Russian character with red hair, I also have a white boy with orange hair. and i have a black character with natural pink hair. in my creation, the colors are natural not died.
at the end of the day, they are all "fictional", characters.

All i'm saying is, its ok to be creative with your characters. there is no rule that says you have to be ethnically correct when creating a character. its freedom of choice.

LCT_m_a_d · May '21

I wouldn't say it's useless, I think one important point raised (to a level of contention) is that "not racist" isn't the only checkbox that makes many people feel comfortable with how people are portrayed.

I hope voicing my opinion on the matter would offer insight from a black individual with dark feature complexion. I don't want anyone to deny dark people with light complexion, as much as I'd like creators to appreciate black people with common darker complexions when it comes to design.

Of course I'm only one person, so you are welcome to respect or disregard my individual opinion as far as you value my right to share it. I always appreciate the courage it takes to learn about people first and represent individuals, and not just their tolerated portrayal.

foxnflames · May '21

These “fictional characters” are vessels for representation in media. And “as long as it’s not offensive” is a cop out. Because as long as it’s not offensive to who? The people who most novels and comics and Tv shows and movies cater to? Because it’s not people who look like us.

My stories center BIPOC, mainly black people because of the lack of positive representation, especially toward dark skinned black men. Even though I’m black, I’m still careful of how I portray my characters because while they’re not real people, we as humans draw connections and comparisons to things in real life. So I’m not about to sit up here and perpetuate negative stereotypes of people who look like my friends, husband, coworkers, family, etc. All my characters are created with care so I’m not about to flippantly say, oh they’re not real and as long as no one calls me out on it then it’s fine.

I never said that you or anyone couldn’t be creative with character design, but each feature has some type of purpose, whether intended or not. You might pick a hair or eye color because you like it, but you can’t control how people perceive it. And to blatantly ignore that notion as a creator is beyond careless.

Tanako · May '21

I have no faintest idea on what you are getting at. and to be honest, I don't share the same view as you so you might as well stop trying to prove your point to me. you owe me nothing and I don't owe you anything as well.
The original post say "What do you think? Is it racist, or we overthink it?". And I gave my opinion and here you are attacking my comment.

to be honest, all that you have said means absolutely nothing to me. I gave OP my perspective so let's all stay on topic.

R.n.P · May '21

no its not racist, that would be a reach to say so, you're just referencing the characters hair

joannekwan · May '21

While not blatantly racist, all of this information can explain how the character could be interpreted negatively. And hopefully you can relay the above points to your friend. Clearly the Black community is not a monolith (and neither are any POC groups) and some find more problems with the specific character than others. It's up to your friend to decide if they wish to proceed with the caveat that the character could rub some folks the wrong way.

Since we don't know your friend's world setting (maybe everyone has cheesy names based off some aspect of their appearance), perhaps a solution to better the situation could be to include more Black characters that have natural features and quirky names.

ar-ninetysix · May '21

I feel like I should elaborate on the bit about Light lol

Canonically speaking, Light's name is technically still Japanese, but apparently the author made the decision to pronounce it like the English word "light". So if we were to strictly go off the kanji alone for his name being written out, then his name is actually Tsuki which means "moon".

Anyways.. I think y'all are needlessly arguing based off of assumptions, could this seriously not wait until the OP can clarify the creator's intent?? Are you that eager and impatient to prove each other wrong???

foxnflames · May '21

Lmao I’m not attacking your comment or proving anything to you. I merely wholeheartedly disagreed with what you said. You’re simply one of many people on this post.

And funny how you didn’t know what i was getting at but gave an apt reply.

bluejamtoast · May '21

My point is for the way the name is read. Its not a normal reading of the kanji, Ohda specifically chose for him to be called Light a non japanese name

Nah, its not that deep, just trying to clarify my point

LCT_m_a_d · May '21

I'm assuming I didn't clearly convey my thought. Regardless my point isn't to contest you or convince you to respect me or my position. I won't defend or justify it. I just hope this was insightful to the OP and again I appreciate the err on the side of humanity.

DiegoPalacios · May '21

No one here is denying you the right to share your opinion.

I agree that the goal here is helping OP with their question.

lomcia · May '21

No racist for me. It's normal character. Why make such a big deal with skin colour? If she sees her character like that just do it. It is not racist. If someone thinks it is he should think twice. Its like u would made albino character and name him Burakku or Kuro it is a normal name... Just do her character.I think she will be unique and Im looking forward to see hers OC

thecrystalrook · May '21

90% of the time, the only people I see calling a race card on this type of thing are the people it has no impact on. It's fiction, it's a fake character. We're not bound to real-world scenarios as writers. And even if we were, why is it problematic for a person of color to have white hair? Have we never come across this IRL? If the answer is no, I do in fact find that hard to believe.

In any case, as long as you are not mocking and making fun of a stereotype or culture, then no I do not think its racist. That's what it comes down to. Don't be negative and derogatory.

Kaydreamer · May '21

You didn't come across as rude. It was pretty clear to me that you just wanted to have a good-faith discussion. Maybe the other person was having a bad day and misread your intent, I dunno.

I really appreciated your clarity.

Also, Atsuko Jackson is a fantastic character! I loved that anime, but I totally forgot it existed. She's a great example.

Ordinaryaverageguy · May '21

It's not racist in any correct use of the word or its underlying beliefs. However, there will be someone, somewhere who will call it racist & tell you they were offended. I think if you use the name it will help if there's a backstory on why they carry that name so that it doesn't appear to be a joke.

midnight_pencil · Jan '22

Im way late in this discussion, but it was in my related and I couldn't help but answer. As a person of color,In my opinion, a black character with white hair is perfectly fine, there are many people out there in real life with many skin tones and many colors so I don't mind it in the slightest. I do think the name "Shiro" is a bit off, so unless the name is important or plays a part in the story, I would just pick a different name.'That's just me though,

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Is this racist?

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Anyways.. I think y'all are needlessly arguing based off of assumptions, could this seriously not wait until the OP can clarify the creator's intent?? Are you that eager and impatient to prove each other wrong???

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Welcome to Tapas Forums!

Forum Guidelines 2022

Please meet your forum moderator team!

Anyways.. I think y'all are needlessly arguing based off of assumptions, could this seriously not wait until the OP can clarify the creator's intent?? Are you that eager and impatient to prove each other wrong???

Suggested Topics

Want to read more? Browse other topics in Questions or view latest topics.

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