'arranged marriage, but he's hot and I like him, so it's totally fine'
Not gonna lie, most of the only instances of good LGBT representation I've seen where from people who were actually in the LGBT+ community themselves (She-Ra, Steven Universe, Twelve Forever and no I'm not referring to Vickerman, I'm referring to the other showrunner/writer who's trans, etc.). With a few exceptions from like, actual straight people making good rep (Rick Riordan's books recently, like for fuck's sake, there's a genderfluid person in Magnus Chase, how rare is that?), like hello, I treasure that cuz it's rare. All other instances of attempted good LGBT representation were from cishet people, many of whom reek of the mindset of "hey if we add gay people, people will stop bugging me about representation!" (fuck you, Voltron and A court of mist and fury. I hate you both with every fiber of my being. Also Disney)
I don't quite understand the hate towards BL/GL and Yaoi/Yuri as of late. I kind of get for earlier BLs/GLs and Yaoi and Yuri (like, early 2010s yaoi and yuri anime were pretty fetishistic and very problematic) but recently, I've been noticing that BL/GL and Yaoi/Yuri media have gotten... Better? Maybe it's because I haven't been interested in anime and manga for a long time, but I haven't seen a legitimately harmful BL/GL and Yaoi/Yuri since probably Citrus (i just know it as that one yuri anime where the sisters fuck a lot).
Yea, uncomfortable and toxic BLs/GLs and Yaoi/Yuri exist. All forms of media, from not only Eastern media but Western too, can and will come up with uncomfortable and toxic LGBT media, but a lot of people will generalize BLs/GLs and Yaoi and Yuri as all being toxic. Which is ridiculous, haha.
I think what makes people think "Yaoi and Bl and GL and Yuri bad" is the fujoshis (sorry can't really have a talk about BLs and GLs without mentioning the fujoshis at least once) and yea, understandable, but this is not a problem with the material, it's more about the personality of the person and how they decide to take what is fiction and apply it IRL. It is pretty uncomfortable for EVERYBODY involved, including us LGBT girls. But most of the people I've seen legitimately act like this were on the internet, or young, teenage girls (I was friends with one of these uh kinds of fujoshis, I've posted about it here on Tapas, ironically it was my most liked topic).
So yeah. Sorry for long post, the topic of BLs and GLs and Yaoi and Yuri are kind of interesting to me, seeing as to sort of consume this kind of media when I was younger (and I still kind of do to some extent).
Tl;dr - BL/GL and Yaoi/Yuri aren't always perfect forms of LGBT rep but they shouldn't be judged as a whole genre as being toxic because of bad media. Also, fujoshis are usually just teenage girls stop hating on them lmao
AAAAANYWAY I'm gonna promote my comic ahem, I'm bisexual and I run a comic that explores LGBT themes and problems (later on in the story though). It's kind of like a slice-of-lifey kind of comic about a guy finding a letter in his locker and chaos ensues (sorry TSAU doesn't have a good enough plot compared to my other projects so I suck at summarizing it ajknjadbnajkdb). A lot of the stuff's inspired by my thoughts and experiences, so uh, check it out?
I'll check out your comic though OP, it looks cute!
I'm a bisexual lady, and I'm starting to think maybe asexual or demisexual (i dunno, it's a process.)
I mainly write BL stories. I label them BL and Yaoi because, yep, the sex is part of the reason I want to write them. That's not what everyone is looking for though, so that's the little "this is adult content" hint.
I don't label them LGBTQ+ even though they do include other characters from the spectrum because my stories don't include the kind of themes that I think the community is looking for. In my writing I'm just trying to treat things as if these lifestyles are normal' which they really should be by now.
: shrugs : That's just how I choose to handle it.
And theres actually room to speculate that a good way to get young girls to read good lgbt rep made by lgbt people is to label it BL.
At the same time though, labeling as BL is a death sentence in queer circles.
If its going to be a genre it should be broader and inclusive of trans media aswell, if for no other reason than to make people looking for problematic yoai sift through good piles of good and diverse rep to find it. The category should be LGBT or queer, not BL.
Basically catfishing with same sex media.
For a while I was pretty irked about cis/het people writing gay romance due to experience I've had, being one of the toxic ex-fans back in high school. Although I've chilled out on it over the past couple years, a friend of mine also sent me a link to this article28 which really opened things up for me regarding fiction and artistic freedom.
I myself have a comic an lgbt+ cast, buuut it's not a romance, and it's also a depressing read so it doesn't quite fit here. I will say, while people are free to create whatever they want, I do like how BL/yaoi is starting to expand a little. The subgenre has come a long way since I was a kid.
Yeah unfortunately @phoenixrenaissance . I agree with you @Sky-Chau. It's a genre that needs to be broadened. Unfortunately, by the time a sub genre somes up, it's been slapped on the problematic content much like yaoi and bl. BL used to be soft stuff like my favorite BL mangaka Junko, but now it's being slapped on Yaoi content.
You'd be surprised.
The demand for casual rep is way higher than it used to be within the community.
In fact I've seen alot of people complaining about the insistence on making every story that features a queer main character about the struggles of being clear.
People no longer like being reminded that the world they live In is unsafe and are now shifting toward escapist rep where queer characters simply exist in a world free of homophobia and transphobia. In a world where no orientation or gender is weird, or particularly noteworthy.
Like solarfunk zombieland fills this niche as the story while literally gay isn't about being gay. If either the main character or the two suitors were gender bent the plot would be the same. Honestly if the plot hinges on the fact that a character is gay and it's not a political awareness piece, chances are it wasn't good rep in the first place.
A fantasy comic about a gay teen, who isn't quite comfortable in his own skin. Labeled BL because there are strong romantic and coming of age elements to it. I'm all for transforming the BL tag because it's a much larger tent of readers.
The problem with the LGBT label is that each letter represents a very different and diverse group of people, not all of whom share the same interests and struggles. It's kind of like the "people of color" tag. What unites us is the discrimination against us, not necessarily how we live our lives.
It would have its flaws, but even in the case of the poc example, a poc genre would be a refreshing thing for readers who are sick to death of hearing about white people.
Or even white people who want to get a immersed in a story written in another culture but dont have any particular country in mind.
I don't mind BL/GL because at the time I was hitting puberty fan fiction was the only media where I saw people 'like me'. I remember the first time I got an LGBTQ book from books a million it was the stereotypical 'tragic lesbian story' where the women never finds love because love can only be found in the arms of the opposite gender. With shipping and fan fiction and fandom I found a group of people that made me believe true love happens for everyone, even if they did make it fetish-y it a bit.
I have two webcomics and I started both because I wanted to make something where people can see themselves. One of my characters is based off a friend of mine, who had and is still having a hard time being a gay man of color, coming out to his family and just loving himself. I wanted to show people that you can be a hero, you can be someone special, you can find love,no matter the color of your skin, or your orientation.
I work in a library now and I wish I had as much inclusive median when I was growing up. I love that books show mixed families, my parents always got stares, and people would try to tell me my mom isn't my mom. I love that books tell LGBTQ stories without making them tragic. That's what I want to do to. Just tell a story where the characters happen to be LGBTQ+.
Well anyway, after my passionate rant, here are my comics.
Though BL/yaoi hardly is ALL about toxic relationships and cliche fests, just take one look at what gets displayed on Tapas. A LOT of good representation, but also a lot of the previously mentioned 'obscenely rich CEO wants to get into my pants and stalks me everywhere! How romantic!'. It's way too easy to get the impression we never left 2008 and it can get pretty bad, just like conflating furries as aaaalll people into fursuits and other things I'd rather not bring up.
And that's kind of why people really want series marketed as casually LGBT+, but then you can't always go with that because there's a ton of fans that come with exact expectations of that comic and it can hurt more than help that you aren't in the face about it. It's kind of why I don't tag mine as LGBT+ despite the entire main cast with one exception being in some part of it, because it gets brought up every now and then and very little about the story derives solely from their orientation. I kinda wanted that fantasy story where elves could be black and latinx and people are openly LGBT+ and the story isn't about oppression (though it has prejudices that are part of other things, because I wanted to tie it into specific lore), but it feels like I went to the entire other end and it's not clear enough.
Well, that's a "good" first impression for someone, but since it's a good promo place as any, here's my fantasy story with a bi protagonist and his gay x2, ace, lesbian and demi buddies and a transmale boss, and many others. :>
I hate that this is true >< it's really frustrating. It's also something I CAN'T SEEM TO COMMUNICATE IS ACTUALLY AN ISSUE IN THE LGBT+ COMMUNITY TO PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF IT. Everyone outside it think I'm making shit up and that LGBT+ LOVE BL because 'representation'
But then when I don't label it as BL, so that I can try and market it to LGBT+ readers, which is who the comic is more made for, I get readers on tapas complaining that I NEED to label it as BL.
There is no winning. I just want to tell my story with LGBT+ characters while having the very horrible and unfortunate limitations of only having 'BL' to choose from as a genre to represent it.
I think stating BL is death in queer circles is an overstatement. I have a number of gay readers for my webcomic. Maybe that's it, it's fine for gay readers, but not queer ones. But the gays and the girls who like gays are a bigger audience than the queers.
I'm not straight but I write straight characters. I think straight people are very capable of writing lgbt+ characters if they know what they're doing. Though I did notice that the ones that create poorly written gay fetish stuff are the same kinda people to do it with straight relationships as well. I think there's just a thing going around with these cheaply written toxic relationships in the media.
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I..
Ok... I REALLY don't mean to go off topic... I know that the word queer is being reclaimed by the LGBT+ community... but like... don't use it in that way in that context please?? Like everyone under another a letter that doesn't fall under 'gay' is the 'other' It's uhh... it's not right.
But yeah, it's an issue with gay readers I know too (including me, I find some issues in it too and I AM a gay reader believe it or not), but obviously it not ALL gay readers, but generally about the same amount of gay readers that are in the LGBT+ community seem to be offended by it as compared to any other orientation represented in the LGBT+ umbrella.
Keep in mind that it's ALSO not a deal breaker for everyone in the LGBT+ community, but it is a 'red flag' to mean "most likely something I don't want to read" and a very 'hot topic' discussion / debate that will pop up in communities. You'll find a common quote that goes around for LGBT+ webcomic lovers that goes usually something along the lines of "If it has a BL tag, I will refuse to read it." Followed by a very long explanation of the differences between a BL story and a gay story. Which also usually eventually is followed up with a "I really wish there was just a general LGBT tag instead of just the GL and BL ones..." Or in tapas's case... just the BL one...
