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Aug 2020

Haha I think I've ranted about this in private to other creators before when I saw similar conversations about "popularity isn't important" on another site. So I've honed this argument for a long time lol! :joy: I wanted to make a journal about it on that site but ended up not doing it because I didn't have the energy to deal with any potential backlash or long arguments. :stuck_out_tongue:

This saved me writing a longer point to arrive at this. And what @Jenny-Toons is saying.

Also, a lot of us are coming here virtually unknown. We have to grind to get our audience and those readers, who are giving us numbers, won't come overnight. I'll agree that marketing is important and random link dumps get you nowhere. And yes to believing in your story! Writing to get views, likes, subs and catering to what you think a lot of people will read will probably burn you out faster than writing with heart.

I'd personally rather have a creator take the time to value their readers, respond to comments (I know we can't get to them all), and truly engage, but making your reader feel valuable will help you out more in the long run.

A couple quotes I think about a lot that kinda relate:

"I can't imagine writing if I didn't have a reader. Any more than an actor can imagine acting without an audience." - Joan Didion

"An actor without an audience is rehearsing." - Sarah Wayne Callies

Yesterday I thought I lost one of my readers who likes every episode and occasional comments. Turns out they changed their username.

I was so relieved.

And we're not really writing for "subs," are we? We're writing for those people who will really engage with and enjoy our work. It's a matter of finding those people and figuring out how to reach them. It's a journey, but it's a worthy one.

I agree with the sentiment but there's another aspect to this I realized.

I don't want my readers to just come, read, and leave. I want them to talk to me. That's what I get my satisfaction from. When you're new and you've got no reads, those few matter a lot, but once you gain a good number of them, it starts to feel hollow.

Reads alone don't make me happy. Not enough.

This is why I'm getting really excited just at the thought of putting my novel down for a while and get back to writing fanfiction. Fanfic readers are very vocal. It's very encouraging and that's what makes me happy.

I think it will be healthy to phase between working on original and fanfic works.
If only I could write both at the same time...

I lost a sub and scoured my list trying to figure out who it was. Luckily I didn't notice anyone who I know readers my story missing so I tried to not obsess over it. But the next day I got three subs, one of which is someone who I always see liking my chapters so I guess I finally hooked them lol.

A little feedback now and then is a good thing. You don't want to feel like you're throwing your work out into the void.

That said, if you're creating art just to get attention, you're doing it for the wrong reason.

I'd rather not lose subs. But if I get to keep all my active readers then it's fine. Everyone who actively reads, comments and likes means a lot to me because I've spent years never really having people interact with my work.

I definitely appreciate it.

There's definitely nothing wrong with wanting readers. I don't know that anyone would post their work online if they didn't hope for at least one person to read it. I think where the problem lies is the people that give up just because they're not getting reads or the people who will change their writing just to make sure they write something that's popular. I've seen far too many talented people get caught up in the numbers game because in a lot of ways the numbers can be just about luck and aren't always about skill. I've also seen people decide they want to write something they absolutely hate just because they think it'll sell better than their passion project.

Write/draw for yourself, but share in hopes of getting reads, but in the end still do it because you enjoy doing it.

The problem is how a lot of people go about this business of promotion.

Like, we're all creators here on the forum. People who hang around here just because they like reading books and comics -- the're vanishingly rare. This place is basically a backstage lounge, a place where very busy people like to spend some of their limited free time just relaxing and connecting with like-minded folks. It's not like a convention hall at all.

It might feel like people are doing something when they kick down the door and scream for people to read their comics but it actually accomplishes very little. They'd have better luck doing it on Reddit where there's a constant supply of strangers.

I love the craft and want to focus more on it than the numbers, because sh​:cat:tty art and storytelling skills ain't gonna get me anywhere in the numbers game anyway.

Would I like to have big numbers? Oh hell yes, then I could rub it in the faces of those who doubted and verbally abused me. (That was a joke) But at the end of the day, I just want to be proud of my work. I'd rather have a few loyal subs and astounding quality work than have a sea of subs and something I'm ashamed to admit I drew.

I think the more effort I put into improving myself, the better my odds are of people taking interest in it, anyway. I will market myself more eventually, but only after I feel I have something marketable. And right now, I'm not at a skill level I'm happy with.

But to leave off, there's nothing wrong with marketing so long as you're not spamming or harassing people with it.

Although personally I'd kinda enjoy it if someone went and rubbed their big numbers in my face.

You're an oddball then lol. I meant rubbing it in the face of people who picked on me in school (or my parents, cough cough) but I'd never actually do that lol. I'm not a showy person haha

Y'know, one time I saw someone outright quit the comic they were working on after a few chapters because it wasn't getting then numbers they hoped for and they thought it wouldn't make them enough money. It really stuck with me, because I was enjoying said comic and the idea of just quitting because it wasn't getting enough attention kind of didn't sit right with me.

That said, there isn't anything wrong with wanting people to read and engage with your content--if you're posting it online in a public place and saying you "don't care" about numbers, you're lying. The reason the "starving artist" trope is so pervasive is because so many people want to treat art as some purely creative endeavor that you do out of passion, not something that takes time and skill and has financial worth--though those are usually the same people that think all art should be free to consume and think they're sticking it to the man by like, pirating books and reposting drawings without permission. Unfortunately, a lot of artists also buy into this mentality, and act like people who treat their art like a business are "selling out".

On one hand, if you're drawing/writing/making other art with the exclusive goal of making a profit, you're probably in it for the wrong reasons and that'll show. On the other hand, there's literally nothing wrong with wanting something you worked hard on and put your heart and soul into to be seen and appreciated, or even paid for.

Anyway that was my rant.

I agree with that, there is nothing wron about promoting your story so people can see it. I am very honest since the moment I started to publish my comic, that I want to make living with it. Drawing is the only work that I can do properly and makes me happy. But in the moment when you post your story, what are you supposed to do? If you don't promote it, no one will see it and all work is for nothing. I think it's always right thing to be honest about this topic, because then I don't feel any shame. If I want to get succesful and make money with my comic, I have to get it to people. Just then I can get even the smallest chance to be succesful and achieve my dream. In the end, I am just an artist who makes a story and wants to be sure people will get ot it and also enjoy it. After all, we are making these stories for people.

Yes, some people screw it up and become aggresive and annoying and that just sucks. But I think as long as the choice is on reader and ther eis no pressure, it's totally ok.

It's always going to be a hard balance because it's unhealthy to lie to yourself and say you don't care about numbers if you actually do, but it's miserable to make art only for numbers (and also inefficient, you'd usually make more money in a basic office job without having so much work or stress!).

A common problem I see on Tapas is people who are desperate for subs, but unwilling to face the idea that they may need to change and improve or put more effort into their work to get that. Like.... hey, listen, do you really, honestly, seriously think that your comic deserves the same sub count as mine if you just make up the story as you go along, only do vaguely scribbled suggestions of trees with a default round brush for backgrounds and every panel is cropped really close to one person's head and chest just standing there looking forward directly at the camera and the dialogue is all written in Times New Roman with jagged speech bubbles? On what planet is the effort we're putting in even comparable?

Be real with yourself. If you want to be popular, that's fine, acknowledge that it's a thing you want and a necessary step towards being a professional; making a product that you can sell! But you also need to understand that to be a pro, you have to make pro quality work, and it's gonna be a lot of effort. You can't say you want popularity, but then when somebody says "hmm, but this could be better..." suddenly switch and be like "well I don't care because I'm just a beginner doing this for me for fun! I'm not changing anything about my work!" Either enjoy the freedom and lack of pressure of being a hobbyist (and seriously, there is nothing at all wrong with doing this. If comics are just your hobby just for fun and you're totally happy with that, I have huge respect for you.) or be ready to knuckle down and make work that's of comparable quality to other pros and popular artists, do market research, lots of art and writing study and planning.

Ayyyyyyyyyyyy.

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with wanting numbers, but you need to be willing to put in the effort to get those numbers.
I'm a hobbyist comic maker, but I take my writing more seriously. I put in effort to make my stories good, and spend my own time editing my work so it's in the best possible state it can be. You can't just slap down 500 words, not fix the grammar or spelling and then complain about not getting the numbers you want.