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DokiDokiTsuna
Jul '20
WisdomChimp

I still don't understand...you can see all her arms and legs and her face and whatnot; what's unclear??
Are you using the word 'anatomy' as a euphemism for 'boobs' or something? Because I guess that would make some sense...although she's kinda supposed to resemble a 14-year-old girl, so...

Okay, I think I see the problem here. And this might sound patronizing, but I really think it needs to be said: there's a difference between liking a character design and thinking it's right for the character; and it feels to me that you're conflating the two.

You can like the first one as much as you want; you can see potential in it that maybe I didn't see when I rejected it. That's just your opinion; a simple matter of taste.
But you really have no grounds to argue that the character in question would have been better off with it. especially when, again, you know nothing about them or the universe they belong to.
And the fact that I didn't give you context is kind of irrelevant, since I didn't actually ask you for a critique. It's not my job to write out character bios just in case someone wants to judge my design progression.

By the way, when faced with a situation like that where you don't have enough information to make an informed judgment, I believe the polite thing to do is to either (a) ask for the information if the situation is appropriate, or (b) not say anything. =/

Anyway, I think the weirdest part about all of this is that you DO understand what I was going for with the character. Only maybe you didn't realize it, because you're talking about those traits as if they're failings or shortcomings.

You say she "looks more like a liquid chemical than a person"? She's "unnecessarily edgy", "one dimensional"? Congratulations, you got out of the design exactly what I put in. She's a secondary cartoon villain who also happens to be a non-human alien from another dimension; based on your critique I think her design was even more perfect than I originally thought.

But in case you decide to speak like this in the future to someone more impressionable than I am, I'll conclude with this: please temper your assumptions. Don't just arbitrarily decide that what you see in a design is what is supposed to be there, and that any attempt to change it is a betrayal of a 'character' that doesn't actually exist outside of your imagination.
And if it's not too much trouble, please acknowledge the validity of character designs that are obvious, uncomplicated, predictable, even. They exist, and they have value; they're not just examples of 'what not to do'.

WisdomChimp
Jul '20

Alright take it easy. Wasn't trying to hurt you. The anatomy thing is like realism vs cartoonish. I was thinking the liquid thing might work if you leaned just a tiny bit more towards realism.

And making a decision without context is basically how tapas works. One big factor for a reader to read is how the thumbnail looks like, and if the thumbnail has the MC, the first impression can encourage a read. But of course there's many factors so getting hung up on the design isn't the biggest thing, even thought it is still big.

Plus you did ask anyone to give tips and i gave my two cents without trying to break you down. I just like the first design and gave reasons why.

IndigoShirtProd
Jul '20

I think she meant to give tips in general not specifically about her character design. Plus your criticisms, while not invalid, were kinda unnecessary.

WisdomChimp
Jul '20

She meant to start a conversation which i continued. May not have been the desired direction though still relevant. And criticism is always necessary. This is an art community that helps each other grow.

Inspector_Spinda
Jul '20

I typically go for the first attempt, but I usually don't draw a character until I have a really good idea of what they're like. I don't just draw characters for the heck of it is what I mean. Probably still not the best method but I think I've done alright with it so far. For the two main characters of my comic, I came up with their designs years before actually doing the comic so I've refined them in subtle ways since then.

Left is the current design and the right is the design from 3 years ago. I originally went more with a Dracula look, for the hair, but scrapped that idea and just gave him a more generic looking dude short haircut. I think it's fitting though. He is a bit of an everyday man's man. Also sorted his eyebrows out and gave him more eye catching clothes. Admittedly most of the design changes are just me learning how to draw better.

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rajillustration
Jul '20

Recently got into watching sewing videos--especially with a lot of historic costumes (like Bernadette Banner1 type stuff) and it really helps to understand the construction of clothes when creating character designs. It's given not just a lot of inspiration, but also understanding of different types of corsets--who would wear them--how would they lace them--how are these sleeves made--are they lined? I never really thought much about the structure of under-clothes of clothes much, of the interlining and the way you have to use interfacing to make lapels stay at a certain angle. I never thought about stitching and how lace is applied and how people get clothes to be appealing. But now I think about it a lot as I draw. Really handy stuff, highly recommend (also sewing is very soothing to watch).

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Jul '20

I definitely agree with doing motion poses instead of static ones. I get so bored with static standing poses so usually my character designs start off in motion.

AVXP
Jul '20

Sometimes I wish we used words for what they actually mean.
This is pretty much all COSTUME design and NOT character design.

Right, because that would be physical character design.
Almost ANY character can be easily picked out by their silhouettes, alone, once they are DRESSED.
The trick is draw your characters NAKED without all the extra 'hints' (capes, boots, jewelry, haircuts/color of hair, and any additional accessories). To show that you really are illustrating DIFFERENT characters with real physical differences besides the superficial.

Different CHARACTERS wearing the same costume and/or clothing should still look different.
And yep, even their silhouettes should look different.

If your character isn't naked when you're 'designing them' you're not designing a character.

IndigoShirtProd
Jul '20

I don't think that's necessarily the case. You can still account for the body of a character and any body modification (scars, tattoos, etc.) while also designing clothing.

A design tip from me is to consider doing line ups when designing a cast of characters. This way, you can see how they look next to one another. You can implement reoccurring elements if applicable and make sure no one looks too similar to one another through color, face and body shape, and clothing choices.

AVXP
Jul '20

This is the greatest reach of all time. Clothing and costumes HIDE bodily details.
If you want to have a sleeve of tats that you must show off at all times, you can design a shirt with no sleeves, have them wear a vest and/or wear a regular shirt with the sleeves rolled up.

All of those choices are COSTUME related.

clothing choices are separate from the character design.
Self-modifications are considered personality traits.

They indicate a TYPE of character, not the character.

And to be more clear, when you ADD scars to a character you are developing a backstory.
Tattoos indicate a history. All of that goes with the personality part of the design process.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Jul '20

I can see where you're coming from, but how many people actually start with drawing nude characters? Because...that's never crossed my mind to start with characters in the buff.

While I appreciate the technical correctness of your statements, I would be pretty hard pressed to separate costume design from character design.

As far as I'm concerned, all of it is integral to creating a rounded character. What's the point of separating it all?

IndigoShirtProd
Jul '20
AVXP

This is technically a contradiction. That was going to be my counter to the first part of your statement because I have a character with two sleeves of tattoos who does wear a tank top and vest that show off those those tattoos. but he also wears pants that hide the majority of his leg tattoos. But the clothing he wears strongly indicate the type of person he is. Now that's just one character in a sea of characters created by people around the world. But clothing are a very important aspect to character design(where it is applicable) And not only clothing will hide body details, hair can do that too.

I don't understand why you so vehemently want to separate clothing/costume design and character design, when the two often go hand in hand. For example, the Power Rangers. Yes, personality and backstory matter, but the main thing that separates the Power Rangers from one another are their costumes.

AVXP
Jul '20
nathanKmcwilliams

What's the point of separating it all?

You answered it already.

I appreciate the technical correctness of your statements

The reason you make a thread about TIPS is to alert people to things they don't ordinarily notice or know.
Things that are uncommon and important to help with growth for beginners and a reminder for the experienced and seasoned.

but how many people actually start with drawing nude characters?

The difference between how many do and how many should is what gives this thread value.

nathanKmcwilliamsIn the making of Bunneh The Rabbit
Jul '20

Fair enough, it is a tips thread.

I would be interested to find out, how many industry professionals do it with this method.

Regardless, it may be worth the time trying to separate the elements myself to see how much it helps. If it does...awesome. If not, at least I tried something new.

byelacey
Jul '20

I've never designed a character nude first. I always design their clothing with them, and if I decide they're going to have tattoos, scars, or whatever, I draw that separately (I'd recommend drawing any tattoos separately anyway, so you can grab and warp them onto a body to save time). Their clothing is an important part of their design for me! What they look like in their underwear? Not so important.

AVXP
Jul '20
IndigoShirtProd
1

You mean to say, the MAIN thing that separates them in their COSTUMES is the color because the suits are all so very similar. Do you notice a 'similar difference' (yes, I meant that exactly as it reads) outside the suits?

All you are saying, which is semantics ---- someone is doing their homework and watching TV at the same time.
No one has ever done that. lol
Because someone switches back and forth very quickly does not mean the two are being done at the same time or one is a direct substitute for the other.

I never said you MUST complete ONE first before switching to the other.

Iris-Grimoire
Jul '20

Why are we getting so heated over character design and it's not even about controversial stuff

Truth be told, you don't design characters naked at first. Waste of time, unless it's a bust and you haven't figured out clothes yet/ they're mostly for NSFW. Why bother without clothes when the whole is what's going to be seen in your works, when you could be working on alternate outfits?

Clothing compliments shape, compliments mood, compliments the character's personality and social standing. Color, scars, etc, all ends up being part of the outfit as well. Unless they need to run in their birthday suit for a significant amount of time, why even bother to take these essential pieces of the character away? This applies even to characters that don't have a limited wardrobe, where you'll want to make a moodboard for what they'd wear if they were a real person, they're not going to wear literally anything and look good and unique in it.

Pixels on a screen that make the serotonin go up, but when they have the clothing, attachment also go up. Nothing to get angry over.

Jenny-Toons
Jul '20

I make a lot of my character designs based on aesthetics and comparisons.

For aesthetics, I really like designs that have fluidity, so I might include flowing dresses/skirts, bell bottom jeans, or puffy shirts. But that's just clothes.

I also like a certain aura that oozes from my characters -- confidence in their poses, their actions, maybe even certain facial features that give off an air of confidence. That's kinda why I have a lot of designs with lowered eyes, maybe even sometimes combined with a smile and raised eyebrows.

For comparison, that's really based on if and when I'm doing a certain era (like say, the 70s, or the Victorian Era). Usually, I make the first design based on prior knowledge, along with the aesthetic I want. Then, I do more research, find more references, and redo that design to be a bit more accurate. I pulled this tip from Scott McCloud himself, though he uses this tip with drawing a bike before and after using a reference: