Done is better than perfect: a thread

I... wouldn't necessarily agree on the fact that the art of Western comics sucks, though it's also true that my experience is mostly related to European comics, which count plenty of amazing artists: Alessandro Barbucci (W.i.t.c.h., Skydoll, Monster Allergy, Ekho), Barbara Canepa (also Witch and Skydoll + E.N.D.), Loputyn (Cotton Tales), Emmanuel Civiello (Korrigan), Robin Recht (Elric), Olivier Ledroit (Wika), whoever did the drawings for the Dante's Inferno comics... there's still plenty of good stuff around

That said, though, it IS true that if you look closely at a lot monthly/weekly series with a more critical eye, you're going to notice a ton of shortcuts and even ridiculous mistakes: messy perspectives, wonky lineart, huge heads, distorted faces and so on and so forth. Heck, even if you look closely at the artworks of some of the artists I mentioned, you're probably gonna notice that their stuff ain't 100% polished either: you can see the paper texture of Loputyn's watercolors bleeding through her comic frames, Alessandro Barbucci's amazingly detailed drawings don't necessarily always come with a super polished lineart... and in this one Dylan Dog comic I was reading just today, I noticed that the artist probably didn't use a ruler AT ALL for their perspectives, and IT SHOWS XD

So I definitely agree with you on the fact that striving for extreme perfection in comics isn't very useful and can actually be counter-productive: looking at the work of other artists -including the good ones- can definitely help you figure out that we're all human after all, and that we ALL make mistakes. Which shouldn't be used as an excuse to simply publish whatever crap comes to mind, of course... but focusing on doing the thing instead of constantly worrying about reaching a perfection that doesn't exist in the professional word either is definitely a good piece of advice

I know that the ideal is to have good art and be able to keep up with the updates. But in some cases that is simply not possible.

Nobody is saying you should produce trash, but it's true that sometimes sacrifices are necessary.

If my comic was more elaborate I would abandon it because I simply can't spend that much time making it.

There are beautiful comics that I followed that are already abandoned after the first episode and , as a reader, I would prefer a comic that was not that great visually but be able reach the ending. I would definitely chose a comic that is updated then a perfect one that is not coming back.

(I feel the need to say again that I'm not saying that you shouldn't put effort into your comic or that low quality art is a great option )

I think there's a frustrating issue when it comes to manga vs western comics in terms of polish which is:

Most people in western countries have not read manga that is the equivalent of a cheap adaptation of Nancy Drew.

If you've ever spent time in Japan, and gone into the glorious treasure trove that is a local "Book Off" store, you'll know that actually there is loads of low-quality manga, absolute dross that's churned out as cheap commercial tie-ins or adaptations or just third-tier stories in less well known mags. The stuff we're getting in the West is usually such a narrow band of just like... the better stuff from the top magazines like Shounen Jump or Afternoon that's made by the top artists for a big audience who are core manga fans and care about quality. It's not indicative at all of the wider quality of manga produced in that country. Have you ever seen those manga that adapt a videogame and how kinda crappy they are.... Like, here's what the official manga looks like for Persona 5, a game with huge sales and a massive worldwide release:

This is.... roughly on-par art-wise with loads of mid-level sort of comics here on Tapas. It was probably made with the same kind of required turnover as a webcomic artist might need to work to. It's not bad, but this is the kind of level of work that it's reasonable to expect on that kind of budget. It's mediocre when you stare at it, like... the placement of the features on the faces is... well, it gets weirder the longer you look, but the thing is, I wouldn't be scrutinising this art like this if I was reading it, I'd be like "oh damn, what happens next! I love these characters! Yay, Persona comic!"

I've worked on that kind of Nancy Drew type commercial stuff (not Nancy Drew, but other similar IP). The deadlines are punishing and the pay is awful, even when a big publisher or IP is involved. There just isn't time to spend making it a beautiful Eisner-winning masterpiece, and most of the audience don't care because they're kids, fans who aren't usually comics readers and are more into the brand than you, the artist. To them, and the people who commission it, you're just a tool, and if you destroy yourself to make it look good while being within the deadline, they won't pat you on the back, they'll just keep hiring you and you'll run yourself into the ground for your pride, and it won't even get you anywhere, because the talent scouts at Marvel aren't looking at random licensed comics. You have to learn where to spend your effort and what's actually a reasonable amount of effort to put into a project or you'll burn out or destroy your eyes or your hands or your shoulders or your back...

So yeah, done is a hell of a lot better than perfect, and it's a lesson that if you don't learn it, you almost certainly won't make it as a pro. Comics are a storytelling medium, so if you sacrifice moving a compelling narrative along at a gripping pace, or getting the work to the client on time for making every page a perfect standalone artistic masterpiece, you'll shoot yourself in the foot either in terms of building a fandom or just making enough money to live, or you'll physically damage yourself.

When I look at panels I fussed over 3 months ago, I regret spending the extra time because they still look pretty bad from where I sit now . I'd rather get better at being faster and faster at being better while keeping a story moving. I hope no one is judging too hard but if they are... oh well!!

I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that Western comics culture just is not the same as in other parts of the world because it was sequestered into mainstream cape comics and hidden away in comic shops instead of being out in more general spaces like convenience stores and grocery stores and the reasons for this is a long complicated history that I couldn’t do justice myself. But in the end, people aren’t just picking up the latest copy of [blank] for themselves or their kid on an impulse buy on their way home from work. There is more competition in Japan because it occupies a much broader space and there’s a lot more money to be made. Where here a lot of our richest people are tech dudes, a lot of the richest people in Japan are manga dudes.

There has always and will always be incredible work that is on par with the quality of manga we see (just as there is as much rough looking manga as we have rough looking comics) but it gets completely buried because of the comics culture, or rather, lack thereof.

That said, if you want to fill any void in your manga experience I can point to my pretty sizable alternative manga collection where the art can get extremely rough, choppy, and dare I say, BAD??? (Heta-Uma was a movement in manga essentially meaning “bad but good” spearheaded by some of my favorite artists like ‘King Terry’ and Ebisu Yoshikazu).

So I personally never read HunterxHunter but my partner did, and I remember him complaining about how the art just like, randomly takes a nose dive. Behold - published manga art from a very popular IP (apparently those are his sketches because he ran out of time before the deadline):

I work in a library and have picked up loads of comics from all kinds of countries that had some really questionable quality art, but if you read ANY industry advice for comics, what you hear is always the same: you get hired again because you don't miss deadlines and are a nice person to work with. Nowhere in that list of requirements is "magnificent art all the time".

As a hobbyist, I guess you're the judge of both for yourself. But IMO even as a hobbyist, I value finishing pages over sitting over concepts. Sometimes you just have to accept that what you can do now is good enough and move on.

(Psst - if you want to read really good western comics: Saga by Brian K. Vaughan and Fiona Staples is magnificent, but aimed squarely at adults. For a more "all ages" comic, I really enjoyed 5Worlds by Mark and Alexis Siegel).

Totally agree! Indeed my motto is "Sbaglia in fretta" which is italian for "get it wrong quickly!". Many mistakes = many comics = more growth!

The only time I really notice if there are mistakes in any given panel is when it's a huge mistake or I'm studying the art. Otherwise, as long as the story is good, I just don't care.

As for manga being more polished, I've seen some scary stuff. Tooko Miyagi is an artist I like, but her proportions can be...oof. Generally speaking, the stuff that's getting translated and published in western countries are going to be the more successful and polished titles, not the more independent weird stuff, so I don't think it's much of a good comparison.

There's also the factor of what sort of team are these people working with to meet deadlines? A large team, a handful of people, or just one person? Are they on a tight deadline, or can they publish whenever they have time to get it done? (Like, Skydoll is absolutely gorgeous, but the time between chapter 3 and 4? 11 years.)

Yeah... I often forget that a lot of really polished comics are produced by a whole team. It doesn't make any sense to compare oneself or smaller one-person work with that! In the case of feeling like that's a standard you need to measure up to while getting work done on a schedule... ugh, no.

Done is better than perfect when I cannot nail that pose, so I just leave it looking a bit wonky.

As someone who has struggled a lot with perfectionism in the past and in many ways still is, this topic has been really encouraging to me to see.

I remember that at an old Gaming College I used to take classes at a few years back, they had a sign up in the lobby that said, "Perfect is the enemy of good" -Voltaire, and I realized that's a really good thing to keep in mind as well I feel.

And besides, there are plenty of things out there that are popular and successful despite being far from perfect as well (Like the aforementioned Hunter X Hunter for example). So that's good to keep in mind as well.

I would say we have exactly the same amount of quality vs not quality as other countries, but in the States we only get the crème de la crème translated into English. It's expensive to port that stuff over, even digitally. The comics industry is mainly money-motivated, and the truth is, most of these publishers aren't paying for good art, they're paying for fast art. You can't have good quality and a fast turn around for the cheap. That's a global phenomenon.

Nancy Drew in particular has been a serial pushing out cheap hastily written books for like decades. Not really a surprise it's on the meh side.

Like speaking as an artist that has had many a illustration job--I don't put those jobs in my portfolio for a reason. They are quick, they tend to be cheap, I just finish the job and move on. Would be cool to get paid 2k to make a really fancy illustration, but most of the time it's like...really simple art that is pretty basic and a little boring. But hey--at least I get paid, and my client is happy. Whether or not other people are happy years down the line is not really my problem at that point.

Well-written thread. I've definitely noticed the thing about western comics.

'Done is better than perfect' is not working in my opinion because it is missing a step: "done well".

Just done, with no quality requirement except being completed: not enough
Thriving for prefection: likely conterproductive.
It has to sit somewhere in the middle.

Regarding Western vs Eastern I dislike both styles in their stereotypical forms and find there can be half-assed aspects in both, so I don't have much to say on that.