Jun 2016
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Jun 2016
Feb 2018
nobody
Jun '16
dglisson

@dglisson I think your ad sounds fine blush You know your story and your characters, you have an idea about how long it's going to be, so it's not one of those "I only have a vague idea about where this is going, but I'll work it out as I go", and you've already planned your next steps in terms of publishing, which is reassuring too – you have a goal and a plan on how to reach it.

Your story sounds fantastic, and I think that there's a lot about the characters and the world building that most illustrators would just LOVE to work with. If I knew I had the time to commit to a story of that length, I would definitely apply wink I hope you find the right person to work with, your story deserves to get published!

So, for anyone here wanting to get paid for making comics, you should at the very least read through dglisson's post3!

About this topic in general: I don't really use DA that often nowadays...but I remember going to the forum once and stumbled upon a thread where people were discussing commissions and payment, and I completely lost faith in that place after that...not only do people expect art to be cheap, but I even saw artists arguing that artwork wasn't worth that much, and talking shit about artists that they thought priced themselves too high...solidarity where are you

69Michi
Jun '16
1

... wow that is horrible :(((( This is why I barely use forum anymore TBH I often encourage artist to increase their prices when I saw their arts are worth so much more than they price them to be even though it means I have to spend more to commission them. But like REALLY. Some talented artists underprice their works so hard I feel bad for them, and some other artists who show little to no effort in their artworks made thousand off of it. DA is a strange place I have to admit, cringeworthy dramas left and right, I hate it but I love it at the same time. I don't see myself leaving DA anytime soon though, just casually ignore the bad side of it.

Your words actually reminds me of my last commission clients who was kind of annoying... T_T When a customer said they like your artstyle, commission you but ask for 3438298291 revisions of the work, going as far as "here resize the hips, scale down the legs like this, make the arms shorter, also make the neck longer and the head smaller" <- this is way too harsh on an artist I know they didn't mean it the bad way but I felt like it was a blow on my art skill ;;_;;
P/s: It was a chibi commission........

heterodont
Jun '16

It does suck seeing people charge so little for their work when they definitely need to be charging more! I can't count the number of times I've seen a really talented artist charge so little, like one example was from a while back - the artist had really stellar traditional art and...$15 dollars for a full body.

Popularity is a factor here. You say artists who show little to no effort make thousands - often times because they've got a HUGE following who are full of people willing/capable to drop money on whatever price-y commission they offer - even if the art is lackluster or unpolished. I feel like the issue is that often times people charge so little because its the only way they can get commissions. For example myself, I used to charge $35 for a rendered piece like this12, and I got commissions for it - but ever since I bumped the price up to $70, I have gotten no inquiries for one at all. It's crappy but sometimes it's just the way it goes :confused: People advocate raising prices but no one is willing to pay once they get too '''high'''' unless you're extremely popular

69Michi
Jun '16

I so agree with you :/ It's really bad on DA it's like a racing who gets the most art/design off of a popular artist. My friend who wanted to join the adoptable world to earn some extra cash for her family gave up so fast it's ridiculous. She has really great art, spends so much effort on her designs and everything but her stuffs never got sold while someone else can just spit out a messy sketch and made twice the amount she could ever dream of it's just very sad.

You have such beautiful art njdkwa I can totally see it's worth $70!! But yeah once again I had to agree about how pumping up price might not get you customers. It's a competing world out there, sure I know this little price is not enough compare to the amount of work I put into this piece of art, but people have bill to pay and food to eat :/ I can't hold onto what people deem as "high price" with the little amount of audience I have T_T

Luminosophy
Jun '16
69Michi

My last commissioner did that to me. They kept asking for all these revisions until I realized they were asking me to draw completely outside of my style, basically mainstream anime. Despite saying they liked the style of the examples I had. It made me super uncomfortable because the proportions and pose they wanted was far too unrealistic for my personal standards. Put me off ever doing commissions again.

Doubtcent
Jun '16
CaptainUfo

I never meant to say that making a storyboard was the only way for a writer to help the artist. It was just a real-life example that I could think of a professional writer-artist duo that actually worked in the long run. In the end, what I wrote was from the writer's perspective, not the artists.

Some artists like a pre-made storyboard because it can help them have an IDEA rather than just a script, while many others work well WITH a script only. Besides, as an artist, you have creative liberties to fix things along the way. If you looked at #3, I said writers should be knowledgeable for both script-writing and storyboard, that way you can help the artist in what they would like from the writing side of things.

The basic point is that sometimes, writers can do some more work their end if you both want something good to come out of a compilation. Each artist is different in what they would like in the writing department. And since art is really the hardest part, making it easy sometimes for the artist should be something you're prepared to give as a writer.

As for the "cannot unsee it" part, as an artist, you can change anything from a storyboard given to you. Like the Death Note Duo, their storyboards are often like day and night. The panel placement is more oftentimes changed and the "errors" are flattened. Because sometimes, as the artist, you have no say in how the writer, who is paying you, gives the story to you.

I would personally LOVE to have someone come up with sketches and storyboards with me rather than just letting it go on its own. As long as I can have some creative liberties in the end product, maybe improving character design, fixing dialogue, etc. as long as I communicate it with the writer that something wasn't perfect with the character's actions or maybe something in the story felt off.

Really I was focusing on how working together with the writer/artist closely, as if any miscommunication at any moment can let the project fail. While some may think, "oh I'm just hired to do some artist work so I'll just do whatever", that doesn't always help the project grow. Yes, it all depends on the artist and the writer. But I've heard of many compilations, even some that I've been a part of, that fail because it felt more like a commission, rather than a dedicated project with both sides working together at every step.

And sometimes, some writers just don't know how to write scripts. They might have a full-on novel that they want you to work from. Storyboards was just an example that writers can use to make the transition easier.

isaacfriedman
Jun '16

Has there ever been an artist who said "Hey, I'm really good at drawing and want somebody else to write a story to tell me to draw"? I feel like that's not a thing that happens often.

69Michi
Jun '16

In fact it's quite rare to come across an artist who is in need of a writer in webcomic world because the art tends to speak for itself, even if you are bad at writing, you can still manage some dialog here and there. But I have seen quite a handful of artist seeking for collaboration on this forum and other forums I've ventured to. Some people are not the best at writing, and writing can really make a different in comic, so to have a good writer help you out would be very ideally!

It's actually not "write a story to tell me to draw" but more like here I have an idea but I'm not the best at writing, can you help me write out the scenario, dialog and I will handle the drawing part!

isaacfriedman
Jun '16

That would make more sense. That's actually how TV shows work. For example, Adventure Time and Steven Universe have singular creators - people who had the idea for the world and the characters in the first place, but there are dozens of writers who write the individual episodes. "I have an idea, but I'm fuzzy on some of the specifics, come help and someone will pay all of us" is more reasonable than one person going up to another and saying "I'll do one part of this and you do the other and you might be paid"

1 month later
Caelestie
Jul '16

ah you see exposure is the timeless excuse to not pay properly an artist! do people think artist are afraid of making money?
I love me some money I get excited to get some!

I wish money tree existed!

saerel
Jul '16

I suppose it comes from not being a professional, but if a writter ever wanted to do do a collaboration with me, I'd like for it to be because they loved the art style. It would take me a lot to collaborate with someone I didn't trust, and I'd never want to create a story with someone unless I had a crush on their writting style. And yes, even if it's just illustrating a script, I still believe the artist co-createst the story, as much as a directors and actors co-create a film. A good writter/artist relationship is the secret to a great comic, and the reason why Iike webcomics so much (they are often the same person!) while printed, 'official' comics, sometimes feel flat and artificial.

lukas3
Jul '16

I have a friend who is a manga artist. If you think his art is good, privately message him so he knows he's got the gig.
His art here19

lunchtiiime12
Aug '16
2

Mornin' spudfuzz,

I thought maybe I could provide some perspective from "the other side". I reached out for a manga artist about two years ago. I had real money, a real script, and a real idea. I did reach out on DeviantArt. I was attacked with many artists furious that they had to provide a free "sample sketch". I ended up paying almost 20 artists nearly $50-$100 for their samples, and every one of them could not do what we needed (it wasn't even close, and now a lot of them continue to email and badger me for more work.) I think most of them couldn't believe that we were talking about a 5 year, multi-page per week project. Eventually, I did find an artist. The first few months went pretty good, everything was paid for (very fairly) and the pages were late most of the time - but I could deal with that.

But then, 6 months in, he got burnt out, was very late, and we had to call it quits. After I spent nearly $1000 on his work (0 of which we use now). He's still a great guy, don't get me wrong - and he works on side projects for us now, things like promotional works, etc - stuff without a deadline.

So back to the drawing board, back to DeviantArt, back to asking (and getting attacked again). Found another artist. He was a really good communicator, but he was even more expensive, and his talent wasn't where I needed it to be. So after one page, he sputtered out as well.

Finally, we found our guy. He was very excited to do the project full time, and is more than happy to take our money. He had to re-draw the first 10 pages which took a long time, but it gave him a lot of good practice. We're about 10% done with the first season, and 2% done with the entire project, but he's doing a good job. However, I know that if he were to ever quit on us, we'd be out several more thousand dollars, and I would not try again.

I've since asked other artists for samples, asked for fanart, anything in the hopes that we could pay more artists for more help, but nobody steps forward.4 I do not know why this is. Reach out to me if you want to get paid for your work, because we are to the point where we are about to pay people for fanart with no previous samples. I'd love to talk about your struggles with this.

Thanks,

The Lunch Tiiime8 team

69Michi
Aug '16

DA is not... a very professional page for any long term commitment I have to say. I think deadlines and all that jazz are also part of the reason I rather work solo on thing than find someone else to work with. I like working on thing on my own pace, I don't like it when people rush me, or there is a deadline hovering above my head :confused: I know it's gonna take a lot more work and effort for me to work alone on stuff, but at the end of the day I can feel proud and say, "Yes, I did all of this work by myself." Plus, I'm at no risk of anyone quitting on me.

I'm glad you were able to find someone to work with though and hope you guys can stick to each other till the end!

I think the main problem is that in the topic and the doc, you were asking for fanart for free with the promise of little promotion here and there? No where in them says that it's a pay job. You can try to commission people on DA to draw fanart for you, or catch another talented artist on this forum that has free time to spare to request a drawing. It's just that people on this forum are mostly creators themselves, and it can be hard for them to find some spare time out of their busy schedule to draw something else for free for someone unless they really love the series.

lunchtiiime12
Aug '16
1

Fair point - I don't know any place better than DA. Business is deadlines, I don't know what else to say to that... I have to write it (and as I've read on this forum, have it totally complete) before some artists would even consider me. You are absolutely right about everyone here being a creator, that's true. I just figured a few were looking to practice, and get some exposure. Silly me...

Regarding your second point - as I have said, I have spent nearly $1000 on "fan/promotional art" - black and white sketches, and most of it is nowhere near the quality of the artists' prospective portfolios. Every page of Lunch Tiiime is a paid work by a very talented artist, who was happy to give us a free sketch or two to show his interest. He loves his job dearly and we pay him well. Don't you think that was worth it for him, for a few minutes of his time? He certainly thinks so. Many, many artists reached out to us with demands. He reached out to us with a sample of our characters he did for fun. He's been gainfully employed by us since. Maybe his talent was so high, he was very confident. I'm not sure.

I just don't see what the big deal with a 5 minute sketch is - and I'm an artist myself. I should probably mention that - I'm not some big fat cat sitting on a mountain of money. I work my butt off making my own style of art to supply my Patrons with what they want, and almost all of it is turned around to support other artists (primarily manga artists.)

69Michi
Aug '16

There are talented artists on here that takes freebie just for the fun of it. You can catch them before their slot filled out if you have good timing


Where are you looking for these commissioned art? I don't commission much, but if I spend the money for a specific set of art from an artist, and the art does not meet the artist's usual standard, I will be sure to talk to them about that and not just let it slides. I were once pretty active on DA, so I have a list of trusthworthy artist that I usually commission.

A 5 minutes sketch to me is a half-hearted sketch. I don't spend 5 minutes on my sketch, it usually takes me 15-30 minutes for a sketch, and those are the characters I'm already familiar with. I'm not sure about other artists though. If you are talking about fanart from people, I can only say you keep doing you, if people like your work, fanart will come naturally, you can't just make/or expect people to take out the time in their schedule to make you a piece of art, even if it's only for 5 minutes, imho.

I.e: This is something I received recently, out of someone that I didn't even know, purely because I somehow inspired them. And it means a lot to me.
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