Tbh I kind of agree with you but at the same time I feel like I'm on a different boat. I'm an artist AND a writer, I used to be a hobbyst writers for years, translating novels to my mother language and such before getting serious with the art world. Currently I'm working on my first webcomic ever and I found the hardest part of the drawing process is, you guess it, mapped out the storyboard and angling panels + characters. I imagine it would be hard for an artist to know what was going on in a writer's mind while he was writing that specific part of the story to do the character placement justice (sure they can interprete it the way they want but it's always so much better when the writer himself explain what he was thinking in different, specific part of the scenario), so that is where the writer mapping out the storyboard and panels come in handy and I would really appreciate that if I ever work with another writer but myself.
But yes I respect your opinion! It's just my 2 cents hahaAlso I noticed the topic is renamed into DISCUSSION LMFAO
I don't think this is one absolutely necessary. It's nice and helpful, and perhaps some artists need it more than others, especially when they don't like the idea of doing the entire workload themself, but I worked with a writer on another comic for years and he didn't make much art (maybe a couple of little pieces of art for reference) and couldn't really help with the process.
However, on the other hand he had a wife and sometimes other artists who occasionally made concept art for me to go by, though even when that wasn't available, it helped that he was very informative and gave me what references he could.
My suggestion after collaborating with a writer for some time? Have the ending of your story in reach. It just makes it more likely that the artist(s) will be able to finish it for you without life happening or....in my case just hitting a wall with the entire project. ^____^;;
Also remember to give your artists some creative breathing room, especially if they're doing the entirety of the pages themselves. My writer was very kind about letting me do my own thing with the layouts n' such. He still was honest and upfront when something wasn't working for him, but he didn't jump all over me when I didn't make something exactly as he originally pictured it either.
Yeah, I'll stop editing this now. XP
I very much agree with you here. Artists are visual storytellers, and what works for one collaboration doesn't work for the others. I would urge writers to not attempt to thumbnail or sketch or provide direction on the art, instead they should ask for the thumbnails and sketches to be provided and give feedback on those. Let the artist do their thing unless they are the ones asking! Let up on the choke chain! 
@dglisson I think your ad sounds fine 
You know your story and your characters, you have an idea about how long it's going to be, so it's not one of those "I only have a vague idea about where this is going, but I'll work it out as I go", and you've already planned your next steps in terms of publishing, which is reassuring too – you have a goal and a plan on how to reach it.
Your story sounds fantastic, and I think that there's a lot about the characters and the world building that most illustrators would just LOVE to work with. If I knew I had the time to commit to a story of that length, I would definitely apply 
I hope you find the right person to work with, your story deserves to get published!
So, for anyone here wanting to get paid for making comics, you should at the very least read through dglisson's post3!
About this topic in general: I don't really use DA that often nowadays...but I remember going to the forum once and stumbled upon a thread where people were discussing commissions and payment, and I completely lost faith in that place after that...not only do people expect art to be cheap, but I even saw artists arguing that artwork wasn't worth that much, and talking shit about artists that they thought priced themselves too high...solidarity where are you
... wow that is horrible :(((( This is why I barely use forum anymore TBH I often encourage artist to increase their prices when I saw their arts are worth so much more than they price them to be even though it means I have to spend more to commission them. But like REALLY. Some talented artists underprice their works so hard I feel bad for them, and some other artists who show little to no effort in their artworks made thousand off of it. DA is a strange place I have to admit, cringeworthy dramas left and right, I hate it but I love it at the same time. I don't see myself leaving DA anytime soon though, just casually ignore the bad side of it.
Your words actually reminds me of my last commission clients who was kind of annoying... T_T When a customer said they like your artstyle, commission you but ask for 3438298291 revisions of the work, going as far as "here resize the hips, scale down the legs like this, make the arms shorter, also make the neck longer and the head smaller" <- this is way too harsh on an artist I know they didn't mean it the bad way but I felt like it was a blow on my art skill ;;_;;
P/s: It was a chibi commission........
It does suck seeing people charge so little for their work when they definitely need to be charging more! I can't count the number of times I've seen a really talented artist charge so little, like one example was from a while back - the artist had really stellar traditional art and...$15 dollars for a full body.
Popularity is a factor here. You say artists who show little to no effort make thousands - often times because they've got a HUGE following who are full of people willing/capable to drop money on whatever price-y commission they offer - even if the art is lackluster or unpolished. I feel like the issue is that often times people charge so little because its the only way they can get commissions. For example myself, I used to charge $35 for a rendered piece like this12, and I got commissions for it - but ever since I bumped the price up to $70, I have gotten no inquiries for one at all. It's crappy but sometimes it's just the way it goes 
People advocate raising prices but no one is willing to pay once they get too '''high'''' unless you're extremely popular
I so agree with you :/ It's really bad on DA it's like a racing who gets the most art/design off of a popular artist. My friend who wanted to join the adoptable world to earn some extra cash for her family gave up so fast it's ridiculous. She has really great art, spends so much effort on her designs and everything but her stuffs never got sold while someone else can just spit out a messy sketch and made twice the amount she could ever dream of it's just very sad.
You have such beautiful art njdkwa I can totally see it's worth $70!! But yeah once again I had to agree about how pumping up price might not get you customers. It's a competing world out there, sure I know this little price is not enough compare to the amount of work I put into this piece of art, but people have bill to pay and food to eat :/ I can't hold onto what people deem as "high price" with the little amount of audience I have T_T
My last commissioner did that to me. They kept asking for all these revisions until I realized they were asking me to draw completely outside of my style, basically mainstream anime. Despite saying they liked the style of the examples I had. It made me super uncomfortable because the proportions and pose they wanted was far too unrealistic for my personal standards. Put me off ever doing commissions again.
I never meant to say that making a storyboard was the only way for a writer to help the artist. It was just a real-life example that I could think of a professional writer-artist duo that actually worked in the long run. In the end, what I wrote was from the writer's perspective, not the artists.
Some artists like a pre-made storyboard because it can help them have an IDEA rather than just a script, while many others work well WITH a script only. Besides, as an artist, you have creative liberties to fix things along the way. If you looked at #3, I said writers should be knowledgeable for both script-writing and storyboard, that way you can help the artist in what they would like from the writing side of things.
The basic point is that sometimes, writers can do some more work their end if you both want something good to come out of a compilation. Each artist is different in what they would like in the writing department. And since art is really the hardest part, making it easy sometimes for the artist should be something you're prepared to give as a writer.
As for the "cannot unsee it" part, as an artist, you can change anything from a storyboard given to you. Like the Death Note Duo, their storyboards are often like day and night. The panel placement is more oftentimes changed and the "errors" are flattened. Because sometimes, as the artist, you have no say in how the writer, who is paying you, gives the story to you.
I would personally LOVE to have someone come up with sketches and storyboards with me rather than just letting it go on its own. As long as I can have some creative liberties in the end product, maybe improving character design, fixing dialogue, etc. as long as I communicate it with the writer that something wasn't perfect with the character's actions or maybe something in the story felt off.
Really I was focusing on how working together with the writer/artist closely, as if any miscommunication at any moment can let the project fail. While some may think, "oh I'm just hired to do some artist work so I'll just do whatever", that doesn't always help the project grow. Yes, it all depends on the artist and the writer. But I've heard of many compilations, even some that I've been a part of, that fail because it felt more like a commission, rather than a dedicated project with both sides working together at every step.
And sometimes, some writers just don't know how to write scripts. They might have a full-on novel that they want you to work from. Storyboards was just an example that writers can use to make the transition easier.
Has there ever been an artist who said "Hey, I'm really good at drawing and want somebody else to write a story to tell me to draw"? I feel like that's not a thing that happens often.
In fact it's quite rare to come across an artist who is in need of a writer in webcomic world because the art tends to speak for itself, even if you are bad at writing, you can still manage some dialog here and there. But I have seen quite a handful of artist seeking for collaboration on this forum and other forums I've ventured to. Some people are not the best at writing, and writing can really make a different in comic, so to have a good writer help you out would be very ideally!
It's actually not "write a story to tell me to draw" but more like here I have an idea but I'm not the best at writing, can you help me write out the scenario, dialog and I will handle the drawing part!
That would make more sense. That's actually how TV shows work. For example, Adventure Time and Steven Universe have singular creators - people who had the idea for the world and the characters in the first place, but there are dozens of writers who write the individual episodes. "I have an idea, but I'm fuzzy on some of the specifics, come help and someone will pay all of us" is more reasonable than one person going up to another and saying "I'll do one part of this and you do the other and you might be paid"
1 month later
ah you see exposure is the timeless excuse to not pay properly an artist! do people think artist are afraid of making money?
I love me some money I get excited to get some!
I wish money tree existed!
I suppose it comes from not being a professional, but if a writter ever wanted to do do a collaboration with me, I'd like for it to be because they loved the art style. It would take me a lot to collaborate with someone I didn't trust, and I'd never want to create a story with someone unless I had a crush on their writting style. And yes, even if it's just illustrating a script, I still believe the artist co-createst the story, as much as a directors and actors co-create a film. A good writter/artist relationship is the secret to a great comic, and the reason why Iike webcomics so much (they are often the same person!) while printed, 'official' comics, sometimes feel flat and artificial.
I have a friend who is a manga artist. If you think his art is good, privately message him so he knows he's got the gig.
His art here19
