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HGohwell
Jun '23

So, I thought I'd share here and get some general thoughts from people on some rough character designs for my upcoming historical fantasy (and names, in my best handwriting so you can read them, because I know how hard it is to give character feedback and trying to point out who you're talking about). Feel free to just give me your first thought, of course, or further context below and my own thoughts.

So, context and probably not as important stuff. First of all, this is an illustrated webnovel, not a comic, so I'm not too worried about things like details, if anything there should probably be more details. Not enough ruffles, embroidery and bows. But this is mostly to have a rough for things like the covers and to have a rough idea for illustrations and styles per character than the outfit they'll wear every single time. The story is historical, leaning specifically into the 18th century, but not entirely going for historical accuracy. Things like the silhouette (shape of the women's bodies using under support, varying wide hips and layering, lengths of the waistcoats and jackets ect), general vibe and styles of dress are based on historical fashions of the time, and even the colours (apart from Ffion's ombre skirt) aren't without evidence. The main deviation is the hairstyles, no powdering or wigs that you'd typically think of with this period of outfits (although that's not to say it's not there in story, along with the very wide hipped dresses for formal events) and especially the men's hairstyles are far more modern, but that's a conscious choice.

Anyway, I'm curious to see what people think, impressions, anything that sounds out ect. I'd love to hear some opinions and thoughts.

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    Jun '23

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    Jun '23
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IndigoShirtProd
Jun '23

At first glance, everything reads fine. There's really not much to say since they're all pretty solid. I especially like the women's clothing due to the colors and detail. But, and it's something that lots people skimp on when doing men's clothing, the men's clothes look boring in comparison and lack detail.

I'm not one for historical accuracy, so I wouldn't be able to help you even if I wanted to. It does read more historical than fantasy, but that's not saying much coming from me and that seems to be what you're going for.

I am kinda a stickler for value, so this could or could not be applicable depending on what you're going for.

(I hope I'm spelling this right) Fjion's and Ceirios's outfits carry the most detail but vary quite little in value, or the brightness of a color. Maybe of the blue and violet were a little darker, Fjion's face would pop more. Same of Ceirios's hair and coat was darker, and the pink of the underside of her hat were lighter, the contrast would draw the eye to her face. With Rhian, his pants and shirt are pretty similar in value so you could stand to make the pants and boots darker and different shades.

Of the men, Ian's design is the most unique, probably due to the hair, while Euyun and Rhian are on the more generic side. Not a bad thing, they're fine designs but you could add more. For Rhian, depending on his class, stains and patches or some type pattern to the shirt or emblem. For Euyun, a pattern inner lining, piping on the outside or pattern would do well to elevate his appearance. You could do more! And I say this as someone who always holds back on designs and has to redo them to make them more interesting.

HGohwell
Jun '23

Thank you! Some very useful feedback there and things to think on.

Definitely aiming more for historical than fantasy. I'd put it sort of in the magical realism sort of category or like very grounded fantasy. There are magical elements but it's still mostly recognisable as a version of our world.

Ffion, sorry, I forget I do the old fashioned f that people aren't used to.

I definitely went back and forth over Rhian's look. He's of a lower class, but not the bottom of the pile, so I wanted to stick with the more natural, neutral undyed materials and colours compared to the bright, saturated dyes of the more well off characters, but you're right about the values so I might switch his pants to a darker grey.

Haha Euryn should actually have gold embroidery all across the waistcoat and a lot of design on those big cuffs on his coat. Like this but I never quite settled on the design beyond vaguely symmetric doodles so left it off to work on later.

IndigoShirtProd
Jun '23

Oh that is a cursive f... it's been some time since I've seen one. And I see what you're saying regarding Rhian. This waistcoat on Euyun looks so much more interesting. Whatever design you settle on, I think it should be replicated in a small way on his boots.

lizardlullabye
Jun '23

Ok. Little story/character context, best GUESSES. Here we go.

(A) Characters based on Expressions
They are all wearing rather neutral, calm expressions and fancy clothes. So they might be all observant and calculating scheme playing some dramatic social-society games with poker faces, acting and intelligence? No new players.

(B) Characters based on Fashion/Looks

  • Rhian -- the plain protagonist. Not a foolish one, but gets whatever task done quietly with few complaints in practical clothes.
  • Ffion -- a bright young lady who is interested in the the world around her like an investigative reporter type dress in formal work clothes. Calm, can be straight forward outspoken but politely quick-witted to weasel out information.
  • Ian -- charming loner who knows lot of things. people are a bit terrified but mostly mystified on how he knows, mostly just observance and good hearing. Darker clothes with a vampire collar for sticking to the shadows.
  • Ceirios -- stands out as outsider of group b/c her dress is in different style and is more fancy. Passionate like the pomegranate color, strong intuition and sharp eyes.
  • Euryn -- respectful older member of society. Dressed in dark green like a tall bush, sulks in the background.

(C) Relationships Guesses from them just standing next to each other?

  • There's something between Rhian & Ffion just b/c they both got a lavender scarf. It's not a common color to match with someone else. Maybe it's friendship where they keep each other in check but also willing to do shenanigans.

  • Ffion & Ian feel like brother and sister to me. Not much reasoning. Jabs each other in fancy speech and small embarrassing actions, but strong trust to pull off crazy schemes with great acting and poker faces. Possibly Rhian, Ffion and Ian grew up as trouble-making childhood trio.

  • Ian and Ceirios -- haven't met before, but are curious about each other. Both like to well-informed or well on their way to figuring it out. May possibly be a good mystery buddies together.

  • Euryn might be Ceirios' advisor or guardian?

Inspector
Jun '23

A bit off topic but your handwriting is sick!
Also, I think they look great!

LunarScyphozoa
Jun '23

I’m kind of dying to know how they keep their hair clean, first of all, as that was kind of the whole point of powder. Historical nerd stuff aside, everyone’s silhouettes look very different and the shapes are unique.. Except for Rhian? They have less layering and building outwards on their clothes than the others.

vapidink
Jun '23

Your designs look great, especially loving Ffion's outfit. The one thing I was thinking is that maybe for Rhian you could do a different style for the bottoms to balance out the colors a bit. So maybe use breeches in a darker tone, white stockings, then loafers. That was a common style of the century

Depending on which art program you're using, you can probably find some free brushes for clothing/lace/embroidery patters to add some details.

HGohwell
Jun '23

Yes, I like to get just guesses and impressions early on to see if the characters give the right vibes.

Honestly, hilarious and weird how much of this you got in the right ball park, who gave you my notes.

Funnily enough this is probably the least formal outfit Ffion has so she can get stuff done.

Very much this. Half-fae, so all the fun can't tell lies, has to keep promises and doesn't entirely click with human mortality, so yeah, very straightforward, calm and quick as an adaption to that.

Master conman, so yes.

I love this description of it.

Yes, Ceirios is The Lady, owns everything (that isn't owned by the church or the fae).

I love this as well. Your descriptions are just top tier, make me smile so much.

I love you for noticing this. Yes, that purple is, at least in the lil area the story is set, is reserved for Ffion and her family (on the magic side) so Rhian getting to wear even just a bit of it even as someone of lower class is a big deal. It's sort of like a princess putting a royal crest on some local farm boy nobody.

Thank you! It's taken me decades to make it readable.

Buckle up, I've got some world building for you. So within the little rural area the story is set, there's a specifically magic spring, which is why they get the magic year round heavy fog and a lot of magic creatures and enough strong harvests that they can keep the area relatively isolated. A side effect of this is that the water is warm and healing, so bathing is very regular and encouraged, and good for the hair and soft on clothes, all the good stuff because, yeah, magic, making powdering a fashion choice rather than an entirely practical one. On top of that, there's the fae, who're very powerful in the area, keep the spring magic and keep the harvests good, and so their fashions also influence the local fashion, particularly in the hairstyles that tend to be more modern, so the hairstyles day to day lean closer to that (this is Ian's fault, I had to spend a while in the original world building draft, with Ian's horsey forelock inspired design and how modern it is, fae having more modern aesthetics and influencing the humans ended up making sense so stayed). Now, there are definitely wigs and powdering, particularly for formal events it's big powdered styles for everyone, but locally it's considered too ornate and fanciful and a sign of outsiders and the out of touch. It's mentioned early on you can pick out outsiders who don't belong because of things like that and when we first meet Ian he does actually have the more historical look (particularly as someone trying to look more well off and higher on the social ladder than he is). I hope that made sense and wasn't just an incoherent ramble (as I have a habit of doing when starting my world building explanations).

Yes, while the others are well off (or at least pretending to be) Rhian is a labourer, so only has as many layers as is practical and isn't aiming for fashion. He does have more layered fashionable options for when he has to go places but, yeah, he's aiming for practical and cheap.

darthmongoose
Jun '23

My immediate first impression was "this looks wrong", and I had to stop myself think about why. Then I realised that the women are dressed in clothes from over a hundred years later than the men, and so for me, as a British person who likes to watch costume dramas now and then, it looks really wrong.

The women's dresses have a highly structured and very late Victorian or early Edwardian silhouette and little fascinator hats, little jackets with broad shoulders and then this cinched in corseted waist and paniers to make their hips look wider... but then they're paired with male characters who look like they're from the early Regency era, or even earlier, they're almost looking like they belong in the French Revolution or something, with these little soft cravats and jackets that just fall from the shoulders without much tailoring.

This may seem like an argument that could be countered with "well, it's Historical Fantasy, not just Historical", to which I'd say that from a practical standpoint, it looks like these men and women's clothes were made in eras with different technology, resources and aesthetic sense. The men in these flowing, loose-fitted outfits with Romantic-era sleeves and delicate little cravats feels strange next to women who are so corseted up and structured like stuffy Victorians.

Basically, if your men dress like this, with soft, long jackets, tight breeches and high boots or stockings:

Your women would match better if they dressed closer to the same era to match the vibe. Flowing, Greco-Roman inspired, Romantic Regency clothes:

...and if your women dress like these heavy, structured, cinched in, puffed out Victorian ladies...

Then your men should also match the vibe with the structured shapes, strong tailoring and sharper cuts of Victorian fashion, where wearing tight breeches to show off your sexy legs was no longer "the done thing":

Er... I hope that's helpful rather than annoying :sweat_02:

HGohwell
Jun '23

No of course not. I always love hearing your thoughts and this is absolutely fascinating because I'm right but that you think it looks wrong means I should do something because if you feel that straight off the bat others will too.

Me as an also British person cursing our love of Austen costume dramas. For every Antoinette or The Favourite, there's a hundred Austen's.

So, at the very least this confirms the men do look like they're from the right era. They are heavily inspired by pre-revolution designs, but so are the women. Rather than regency era, we're looking more baroque and rococo.

Ceirios wears an 18th century casaquin, a type of casual short jacket and stomacher over and full skirt (although admittedly this is a pet en l'air, main difference being the sack-back vs not)

And Ffione is wearing an 18th century riding habit, although admittedly without the jacket, and I did pick a smaller hat for day to day wear.

But these are of the same era as the men's clothes, being pre-revolution.

darthmongoose
Jun '23

Ohhh that's really interesting!

I think maybe... It's something about the hairstyles and hats or something... or the colours? There's something about this that's not making my brain instinctively register this as "pre-revolutionary" and I can't put my finger on what it is, because the shapes and silhouettes are correct.

I can see you're kind of going for the same approach as the costumes in Hamilton of "above the shoulder is modern" and then the rest is period, which is a solid approach for Historical Fantasy. What if you tried going bigger with the ruffles maybe? It might just be that the delicate little ruffles evoke the Victorian era, while the example dresses have much bigger ones?

That said, a lot of your audience will be way less fussy than me :sweat_02:

HGohwell
Jun '23

Yeah, given this and some of the other feedback, I'm starting to lean towards maybe doing more detail and larger ruffles. I was sort of skimping on them to start with, this period did sort of have a more is more aesthetic on ruffles and bows and embroidery. Since it's an illustrated novel not a comic I might just go for more details, bigger trims and hats and maybe some bigger, rufflier sleeves to match the men closer so they look more matched.

Possibly true, yes, but I'd rather you were fussy so I can make it the best I can than wave you off as too fussy and not do my work the justice by making adjustments to make it read better.