Webcomic Visibility (Why do comics get 0 interaction!?)

candiedcotton · Oct '22

I say the following with a complete relatability to your feelings: it's the art.

I've been in the business of commissioning art and trying to make a living on it for over two decades, and during most of that my art frankly wasn't good enough to draw the attention/interested/following that I needed to establish myself.

These days the art is probably decent enough, but I'm such a social hermit that my lack of skills in social media stunts my ability to promote my work and I still really don't have much following (nor would I know what to do with it).

But you're at the point where the art just needs a lot of work in order to get interest. Most people, being very honest, will not even bother to read the story at all because the art is simply not of the quality to get their attention. They'll glance at the first page, note the art, and leave abruptly.

It's a crappy thing but it's the truth.

You need to go hard into learning a lot of the basics. Learn composition, color theory, and most importantly, learn anatomy. You'll get a lot better at your work and people will be more willing to give it a chance.

Spectorium_1 · Oct '22

Totally agree.

In the modern day, where everything is abundant and accessible, there is much more to the success of a series, that extends further than the series itself as well. (I'm not an artist, so I can't comment on the art itself. However, I do study business, so I can help a bit there. )

1) Uniqueness and relatability, you mention this in your example of

Really, its the quality and defining trait of your work, which I am in no position to comment about, since I'm a beginner when it comes to comic creation.

2) Execution and timing, cause sometimes, waiting for the right time to release the right quality of work is crucial in the success of something. For example, A author will be have a higher chance of being successful if they create a spin off series of Sherlock Holmes, but seen through the eyes of the main villain as he pulls the strings behind the scene for altruistic goals, at the peak of the craze for "the misunderstood villain" type characters. (This can also be applied through "hyping"/leading the audience with a outstanding trailer or teaser of your work, such as all the posters for Avengers endgame.)

3) Interaction with the community. This helps spread your name, and if people take interest in what you're doing in the community, they'll be more likely to try out your work. However, this shouldn't be your main goal in helping out the community. This is a side effect, and honestly, faking this takes a lot of time and effort, which you'll easily get burned out on if you don't have a genuine desire to participate. The best way you can tell fakes from the real deal is the consistency of their character afterall.

4) Connections are everything, and to maintain connections, you need to be transparent. This probably the most basic principle of business and is kinda self-explanatory. Essentially, just be a good person and don't fake or oversell yourself. Try to give a good and objective evaluation of your strengths, weaknesses, and skills, and check your attitude. People are a lot more perceptive than you might think. Just look at all the dumpster fires on twitter, exposing people for who they really are, to get an example of the positive effects of connections, and the negative side effects of not maintaining them. But besides that, taking a risk and creating a link here or there won't hurt you at all, and the risk-reward ratio is definitely worth the risk.

Disclaimer: There are alot of different practices and innovative business models out there, which all get into the weeds with different philosophies, specifics, and data of "a successful business". However, what I stated above are basic principles that you will learn early on.
.

Zugaikotsu · Oct '22

Well, people already gave great points, so I won't extend, but... this is how the game is, now. Lots of high quality pro stories being released everyday, more than anyone can realistically read. Competiton is insane and brutal. If you want attention you'll have to step up your game. A lot.

Im_moron · Oct '22

darthmongoose:

The drawing itself isn't bad, but the contrast throughout your comic (even on the cover) is way too low; there are a lot of really similar dark tones and half the panels I can't actually see what's happening (like this episode. I literally cannot see what's happening). I think you need to calibrate your monitor brightness, maybe getting help from a friend, or comparing on a phone set to "auto brightness". This lack of readability would immediately put me off reading your comic, and overall it makes it look more amateurish than your drawing skill ought to.

Your hand written text (and honestly, I'm sorry, but a lot of the inking on the art) looks sloppy and rushed like you just left the pen stabilisation on too high, and didn't press undo and redo parts that came out floppy looking or not clearly defining a shape; just left them. Or like there'll be a tail left where you lifted the stylus but you didn't take the care to just quickly rub it out with an eraser to neaten it up. If you're going to present something to the public that represents the best you can do, it needs to actually be the best you can do, and that means going back and carefully making sure it looks tidy.

Honestly thanks for the feedback, and I don't mind the brutality (I frankly just wanna know what's wrong)! I've been working on a redraw of chapter 1 of my comic and I've been vigilant of my contrast because of feedback (as well as just readability because it's pretty atrocious in that specific chapter, especially for mobile reading, and I want to make the presentation a lot better), I haven't considered going back to other episodes and adjusting the contrast too (even recent ones), because thought to myself "oh but the art improvement!", but if the webcomics are this brutal these days, I'll have to do something about it then.

Oh GOD, I've already done the homestuck thing , I've cracked my neck making whole animations on youtube (the 2nd one I just don't feel as proud of honestly, I kind of wanna reupload it and use music that isn't free source and something I've made idk).

Thank you for the recommendation! I'll be sure to especially keep a strong eye on my paneling and typography. It also makes me anxious if I should try to keep up this once-a-week upload schedule too since I feel it's gonna be hard for me to do that while I have work. Also as stated in my previous replies up there ^^^ yeah, I def have to work on some of my presentations! If I'm not working on my current page right now I could probably go through some episodes myself and adjust some of the contrast here and there since it's just a slider thing. I wish I could go back and redraw more of my lines but I feel I can't obsess over redrawing my pages instead of working on my current pages (I can't decide between the two honestly).

Can't help but restate, thanks for the honest feedback!

Im_moron · Oct '22

I don't have many words for this, but I'm gonna so bookmark this, maybe make this my laptop desktop or something. These are pretty good points!

There are things I didn't take mind of but I should work on, like taking part in communities more or making connections. I used to be really good at this back in the day, but I honestly don't know what happened. I've just been kind of vanishing and reappearing after a blue moon.

Certainly thanks for handing me some business advice!

darthmongoose · Oct '22

Good job, you took the critique like a champ!

Honestly I know what it's like to feel stuck. I've been there! You get to a pretty good standard of drawing and making comics, where all the basic beginner advice is too low-level to help you, all your friends and family tell you you're brilliant and totes super-pro and you're just there going "but there must be something the matter because people aren't looking at my stuff! Aaagh!"

Start out by fixing that contrast issue. It'll make a really big difference almost immediately.

Here's a post I made ages ago about speech bubble shapes, which might hopefully be of use?

So that'll be a couple of big easy wins to get you rolling.

I'm sure your animation skills will come in handy at some point. it's frustrating that that mixed style pioneered by Homestuck can't easily be done on platforms like Tapas and webtoon. I even tried to make a comic like that myself back in the day, and getting to the first [S] page was what killed the project. So much work! Still, being able to animate is super-useful on trailers, ads etc. Plus, hey, being a massive unapologetic Homestuck has never done me any harm! (I voice Kanaya in Let's Read Homestuck on Youtube and did some track art on the official music albums, as well as the "Land of Fans and Music" ones. ).

candiedcotton · Oct '22

Tbh I think their drawing skill is pretty lacking. I don't mean to insult the OP, we've all been there. But there's a seriously poor understanding of basic anatomy, even down to facial symmetry. I honestly feel that's the biggest issue here. Most of the panels don't show a full body (or even 2/3rd body) at any point and usually that's to avoid trying to draw anatomy at all. But it's really off-putting to most readers.

They really really need to work on the basics before touching color theory or light sources.

Edit: Just look at the hand and face in the top three panels of the most recent episode. The fingers are weird mushed noodles and the face has this melting pizza shape.

darthmongoose · Oct '22

I think in terms of actionable steps, yes, improving anatomy is a good idea... but also that if we can't even see what's happening due to the comic being so dark and murky, it won't make a difference, hence I'd advise fixing that first.

Getting better at anatomy and stuff is a long road. A couple of quick wins to improve the presentation won't do OP any harm, and might be a bit of a confidence boost.

When I look at things like this:

Yes, there's room for improvement, but the proportions and faces really aren't that bad when OP puts in the effort. On most of the pages, the main issue seems to be a lack of effort, time or attention spent compared to stuff like this. A bit of work learning to apply volumes to anatomical drawing would certainly help give these characters a bit more depth and stuff, but to me the issue is "this person can draw, but needs to actually apply those skills instead of hiding everything in the dark."

So my personal feeling is if we turn on the lights so OP can't hide their scruffy drawing in the dark... and if the better accessibility means more people are looking at the comic... it might help push them to draw to the top end of their abilities more and want to improve to impress that audience?

candiedcotton · Oct '22

I do think the issue is that the anatomical issues are being hidden in the dark, yeah. I just feel they may be a wee bit overconfident in their art given their original post so I feel like adding that firm groundness of the work needed in the basics is really important. I think we often don't realize how bad our anatomy can be until we've gotten a good bit better, then we look back and cringe (or I certainly do, lol).

sable40k · Oct '22

I'm not familiar with Drew Gooden, but I do watch a lot of Twitch -- it seems to be the overall opinion that Twitch is hard to grow on, requires a very specific skillset, and it is a very hard job/place to showcase one's work. Many popular people have tried it out and bounced right off!

IMO, it's a great comparison as both webcomics and Twitch streaming are oversaturated, but glamorized, and often take place on platforms where discoverability isn't super great. However, I'm also of the opinion that if your stuff's really good, it will eventually be hard for people not to find it. Eventually.

Other people have already weighed in with the art style of your comic, so I'll skip that part and say that it's cool you've been banging away at what can be a very unrewarding pursuit for 6 years. I know many, many people quit way before that. I guess the thing I'd say is that rather than try to fix an old project, sometimes it's good to move on to a new one -- with all that you've learned. Maybe a reboot, maybe something entirely new. Especially if you're staring down burnout and multiple redraws, it can be good to take a soul break.

Thanks for the video, btw! I'm going to give it a watch

Kelheor · Oct '22

Honestly, when it comes to comic-making (and art in general) the best thing I learned to do is to compare. Not to stay in the vacuum of your own "I am drawing the best way I can!", but looking at the comics/artworks I consider the best at the moment and ask myself if I am any close to them. If I don't feel I am, I'm adjusting my current course ("I wanna draw better action poses/cooler lighting/better paneling") and proceed. Repeat after a week/month/half a year depending on your satisfaction with the result.

Im_moron · Oct '22

On my way to reply to every single one of these! (in the middle of stuff rn, so it'll take time)

goD yeah, and I'll also give your speech bubbles post a read!

That doesnt sound like that bad of an idea honestly, i'll save trailers for my back pocket hehe, especially since i make decent music now.

Im_moron · Oct '22

I've been unable to really reply to this since I'm not sure if I can say anything meaningful to this (but I have been reading). What do you consider good or bad anatomy? Because I'm still not exactly sure how I can really use this feedback to get better.

IndigoShirtProd · Oct '22

Generally, it's understanding the shape and structure of the human body and being able to portray it believably through art work. It doesn't particularly mean you have to know how draw realistically, though that does help, it just means being able to draw a believable figure in three dimensional space. If anatomy seems too daunting or too obscure of a concept, then I would recommend looking for tutorials (videos, graphics, etc.) that go over how to construct figures from 3D shapes and go from there.

Iris-Grimoire · Oct '22

Darthmongoose and everyone already gave such tips, but here's a tiny one that might make a big difference - if it's not stylistic choice, I recommend capitalizing "One(s)" in the title and URL. There's lots of little things that roll up into a big ball of unintentional first impressions that come before art and writing - and a title that feels unprofessional is the first one.

That's the thing too, there are cool comics out there that aren't the most advanced in the fundamentals, but they hit it off with things like polished marketing, contrast, color choice, solid pacing, and that surpasses what an artist might think is the best way to improve. A comic creator (and novel creators considering how much we've got on tapas now, too) needs to wear a couple dozen hats and invest on them as time and patience allows.

DiegoPalacios · Oct '22

Many folks already mentioned art as a key variable for a solid first impression......

But i will suggest an alternative that can work if you are struggling with time:

Maybe you can save some money and hire an artist. I did that for one of my comics that required a more detailed art style i can't currently pull off......

Of course, before any commitment, make sure the person you choose has the skills, discipline and integrity for the job, and save some cash to pay upfront. Is hard to convince someone to go on percentages of future profits.

Most of the folks i've hired and worked with are people i know enough to trust.....Met some of them here in Tapas.....

Personally i don't choose the same artist for all projects, it depends a lot of the skills and art style i need for that project.

Another important thing to mention if you wanna hire an artist is that communication is key. Make sure to be clear on what you want. For comics i do a sketch that is clear and legible and send some notes for details i consider important.

Hope this helps!

thepenmonster · Oct '22

You can't because it's bad critique. Not that Candiedcotton and the others are being malicious or anything. Their replies are pretty normal. But critique is a teaching tool and thus it requires actual teaching to be useful. Pointing out the flaw is easy, teaching how to fix it is difficult and time consuming. Most people don't have the time or the ability to teach and this always leaves the artist not knowing where to go next.

Proko's channel on YouTube is the usual go-to for free anatomy lessons. There are tonnes more if you look. Also, your local library... assuming you live somewhere near one... will have piles and piles of books to choose from.

The rest is just practicing your ass off.

N1ghtm4r3 · Oct '22

i know it is hard to build an audiance, heck im in the same boat, i know im not the best artist around and there are people way better then me,and so on but i do keep trying my best,what i think holds alot back is how the landscape is for webcomics, alot of the more popular titles seem to be more of the romance genre, so for alot of other genres like scifi /fantasy its much harder to get attention

Im_moron · Oct '22

It hurts, but you're right
It's definitely not worth the rush if the quality suffers like that (in addition to a plethora of some things I have to be sure to account for!)

It would be nice to be honest, because its currently kind of discouraging atm to just keep uploading episodes like that.

Im_moron · Oct '22

I've only really done one reboot, and one redraw of an earlier short chapter actually.
Right now, I'm redrawing one of the older chapters because the jump between that and chapter 2 in just paneling is too drastic.

I don't really like the idea of just starting either a whole new series or just reboot it after working on it for this long. It's a disservice to the few readers I actually have (one of which being a friend who actively consumes my comic and gives lots of feedback).

I'll say I have been starting a side project of just for fun on the side that I might one day bring into my comic too (making music with another music learned friend) and its been fulfilling and keeping drawing fresh when I go back to it.

so ye.

Webcomic Visibility (Why do comics get 0 interaction!?)

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