The + (whatever value) ink in the "value packs" is not bonus ink, it can still be tipped to creators.
I think I can confirm that's not the case since I've spent that on tipping non-premium people before.
I've always just assumed the discrepancy between what you pay for the ink and the value it redeems to was a way of increasing Tapas' margins, along with the fee ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I'm not sure if I'm following everything perfectly here but as far as purchasing, 800 ink = $1. It was the community that figured out that in order to get as close to tipping a creator $1 (because of fees and such) you would need to need to tip them around 1200-1300 ink.
That's exactly the point I'm making. And it's concerning. If this is the case, it's a HUGE margin. They're taking anywhere from 4 to 36% then taking 15 or 30% at the end.
Yeah. Personally I've never been bothered by it because
a) They're a small company, they've gotta make money and idk what their various income streams actually look like so maybe the high margin here is important for them, who knows? Anyway I don't mind supporting Tapas too since I like the site.
b) tbh I feel like most of the value in most ink donations is just like "the spirit of giving" and accompanying warm fuzzies. Probably like 80-90% of tips are really small and it doesn't make much difference whether the creator gets $0.10 or $0.15. I don't mind if people supporting me think they're giving more than they actually are if that'll make them happier, and most creators probably care more about the gesture of appreciation than the monetary value of such small amounts too.
...but maybe I'm too sappy and nonchalant lol
Thank you, that's exactly what I was hunting for. $2M is definitely not a "small business." Doubly so when they have millions of users.
It would be one thing if Ink was just sort of something you earned through the site somehow. Which you CAN do, but it's only like 10 ink at a time. This is people putting in real money that they think is translating to real money for the artists. It doesn't give me warm fuzzies to know that Tapas pocketed 36% of some young, eager fan's money when they just wanted to show a little support to their favorite comics only to turn around and pocket an additional 15% when the artist asks to be paid.
I do think you're forgetting that the first 15-30% transaction fee does come out as soon as you make your purchase and it does not go to Tapas.
Tapas takes their share after the ink has been tipped.
Here's another thread where people were talking about this topic if you haven't seen it yet.
https://forums.tapas.io/t/tipping-fees-are-stupidly-high?source_topic_id=38519
I don't think it's fair to call Tapas anything but a small business. If Tapas is a "big business" then what is Webtoons? What is Amazon? An ultra big business? There are individual people in this world worth more than Tapas. Tapas has a single headquarters in SF that's honestly? Pretty small compared to all the businesses around it.
But also, I think you're finding such a big percentage is being "lost" because you're valuing the extra ink at the same amount as purchased ink. For all intents and purposes, the "extra" ink you get as a bonus for purchasing certain amounts is free ink, so wouldn't it make sense for that to be worth less when given to the artist? In the same way ink earned through ads seems to be worth less? (though I could be wrong on that last part). What does the lost percentage add up to calculating only the base ink?
Hey everyone,
Unfortunately, I'm having difficulty keeping up with this topic as there are already 71 responses and a variety of different talking points being addressed.
@colinmooredraws is there a specific question regarding the Ink-based transaction system that I can address?
Also, the 30% that Apple and Google take is an industry standard for app development as they are allowing us to use proprietary software to handle app-based transactions in a safe and secure method that readers trust. Plus, they are hosting our apps and promoting our apps on their respective stores. They're giving Tapas as well as the Tapas creator base access to readers we otherwise wouldn't have if we didn't host our apps on these store fronts.
The 15% operating fee that Tapas incorporates for Support and the 30% operating fee associated with ad revenue are meant to cover operational costs for Tapas to keep us running, to create new tools, and also to finance original stories to give creators more opportunities to pursue comic creation as a full time occupation. We're constantly re-investing our earnings back into the community to ensure that creators are given ample opportunity to make Tapas their home.
Thank you for your response.
This was my fear with the muddying of the question. It's not about the 15% that Tapas takes at the end.
There are a number of questions that I have on the matter of Ink:
- At what stage does the 30% come out for Apple or Google? The dashboard for support suggests it comes in the same phase as the 15% to Tapas.
- What is the value of 1 Ink? This being when it is in the system and given to a creator, as it shows up as a dollar amount.
My follow up of the sort of "conversion loss" that varies based on how much Ink is purchased by someone might change based on these answers. But it's still very concerning.
I’ll look into the mechanics of how exactly the transaction works and outline the flow to you tomorrow after I verify with our dev team (it’s currently after hours for us).
As for the value of 1 ink - we don’t disclose this information as it does vary - some countries implement different systems that tax readers which impacts the overall unit cost.
I wouldn’t categorize those estimates as accurate or reflective of our revenue numbers. Those also do not factor in app performance (I believe).
As I'm not a math genius and pretty much getting confused with the numbers, here's some quote for you by other users that self calculated it :
This is back when support are called tipping and inks were called coins.
Further reading here. it is a massive thread so :
https://forums.tapas.io/t/tipping-is-here-youre-gunna-want-to-get-in-on-this/15547
I remember that michaelson (?) once replied that at some point, they need to pay the fee for sending the payout from their own pocket because of the difference in exchange value on PayPal, but I can’t find it now.maybe my memory just made it up, idk.
My reply won’t help at anything I think, lol.
Michaelson literally replied here. Just above you.
Paypal's rate is 2.9% + 30 cents. The lowest on my spreadsheet was 4%. Everything I have done is based on USD so there is no exchange rate involved, beyond USD to Ink.
Tapas is already taking a 15% cut at the end on top of app or website processing fees. Which would more than cover Paypal's fees. Which are also taken by Paypal when the money goes into your account there. This is about the dramatic shifts in value from purchase to value in an artist's support account. Please see my spreadsheet posted above.
I give up. Not even the CEO has a simple answer to your simple question.
I’m just gonna do the ”Lalala” and pretending I’m not getting scammed by Tapas.
Because in the end I get paid more here than I ever would have if I tried to get my supporter over at Patreon or Ko-Fi
Michaelson is not the CEO. It says right there next to his name. Senior Editor in Chief. The CEO is Chang Kim.
He has not yet provided a full answer and said he would follow up once he has the information.
I'm... not going to pretend I understand because I didn't lmfao.
My English comprehension is on the far left so yeah, I don't get it.
What I want to point out from that sentence is that they literally need to pay from their own side to sent the money to the creators, and that is. It might not even be true as I'm not that trusting if my memory.
And I did say that my reply might not help at any rate, so I'll just gonna head out and wait for Michael's reply later.